Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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Mick F
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Mick F »

.......... but there isn't any "evidence" as you know full well. :wink:

Any occupation/task/activity/situation etc would make people more concerned if they didn't have any protection vs full protection.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 10:10am One major accident comes to mind when I was very glad of my car’s crumple zone and airbags: without them I’d have been either killed or likely crippled for life. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I was also glad to not have been in a smaller car and now remember making a mental note, on safety grounds, to avoid ever buying a small car. I would not wish to have then in excess but (appropriate to risk) safety features do matter and they need to be present.
Crumple zones are one thing; they only affect the occupants of the vehicle, and then only in the event of a collision.

But size is relative. Today's small cars are the size of large cars from a few decades ago. In general, cars have got larger since their popularization approximately a hundred years ago, as have (for slightly different reasons) lorries and buses. But some things haven't: most noticeably people but also buildings. It's bricks and bones that are the main victims of our ever-larger cars.
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Mick F
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Mick F »

+1

Our present car is the largest I've/we've ever owned.
2014 Yaris.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Today’s VW Polo is quite a bit larger than the Golf I had 20 years ago.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Carlton green »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 3:45pm
Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 10:10am One major accident comes to mind when I was very glad of my car’s crumple zone and airbags: without them I’d have been either killed or likely crippled for life. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I was also glad to not have been in a smaller car and now remember making a mental note, on safety grounds, to avoid ever buying a small car. I would not wish to have then in excess but (appropriate to risk) safety features do matter and they need to be present.
Crumple zones are one thing; they only affect the occupants of the vehicle, and then only in the event of a collision.

But size is relative. Today's small cars are the size of large cars from a few decades ago. In general, cars have got larger since their popularization approximately a hundred years ago, as have (for slightly different reasons) lorries and buses. But some things haven't: most noticeably people but also buildings. It's bricks and bones that are the main victims of our ever-larger cars.
Yes, you’re broadly correct though what was once deemed small and safe now isn’t. The original Mini wouldn’t be legal to make new now and so would many other small cars, just not enough crash protection built into them.
Size is relative so being in a relatively small car doesn’t appear that wise when the Chelsea Tractor hits you. Personally I’d have CT’s off of the road, in general they’re nothing but a status symbol and inconvenience to other road users.
Mick F wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 1:56pm
Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 11:18amMost people get in a car and drive it without a moments thought about crumple zones and air bags.
I utterly agree, but if people actually knew that they were in an unsafe car, or a car which would hurt them if they hit something, they would drive more warily.

Imagine a car with instead of an airbag in the steering wheel, it had a long spike.
Every day people open packets of cigarettes and smoke them despite it being abundantly clear that to do some will result in poor health and even death. Every day people consume large amounts of Alcohol with makes them poor, gets them into bother and attacks their Livers. Every day people take various non legal drugs which are known to cause addiction, social and health problems.

The stupid wouldn’t be deterred by a long spike and ordinary people taking reasonable care would inevitably still get hurt.
Last edited by Carlton green on 11 Jul 2021, 4:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Jdsk »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 3:45pmBut some things haven't: most noticeably people but also buildings. It's bricks and bones that are the main victims of our ever-larger cars.
I would nominate road damage (fourth power of axle weight) and atmospheric pollution. (The latter isn't as high as it would have been without some other improvements, but other things being equal it will increase with vehicle mass.)

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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 4:35pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 3:45pm
Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 10:10am One major accident comes to mind when I was very glad of my car’s crumple zone and airbags: without them I’d have been either killed or likely crippled for life. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I was also glad to not have been in a smaller car and now remember making a mental note, on safety grounds, to avoid ever buying a small car. I would not wish to have then in excess but (appropriate to risk) safety features do matter and they need to be present.
Crumple zones are one thing; they only affect the occupants of the vehicle, and then only in the event of a collision.

But size is relative. Today's small cars are the size of large cars from a few decades ago. In general, cars have got larger since their popularization approximately a hundred years ago, as have (for slightly different reasons) lorries and buses. But some things haven't: most noticeably people but also buildings. It's bricks and bones that are the main victims of our ever-larger cars.
Yes, you’re broadly correct though what was once deemed small and safe now isn’t. The original Mini wouldn’t be legal to make new now and so would many other small cars, just not enough crash protection built into them.
Size is relative so being in a relatively small car doesn’t appear that wise when the Chelsea Tractor hits you. Personally I’d have CT’s off of the road, in general they’re nothing but a status symbol and inconvenience to other road users.
You'd have Chelsea Tractors off the road yet by avoiding ever buying a small car, you're contributing to the ever upwards rise in average size of cars. There's no end in sight without some legislation, which doesn't seem terribly likely in the current climate, meaning that today's CTs will be small compared to those of the 2030s. Well, we can always hope that at some point fashion turns and people start preferring low-slung sports cars or something.
Last edited by Bmblbzzz on 11 Jul 2021, 5:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Slightly off topic but in the realms of my vehicle/ego is bigger than yours: R Branson made it to space a few days before Jeff Bezos.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Carlton green »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 5:02pm
Carlton green wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 4:35pm
Yes, you’re broadly correct though what was once deemed small and safe now isn’t. The original Mini wouldn’t be legal to make new now and so would many other small cars, just not enough crash protection built into them.
Size is relative so being in a relatively small car doesn’t appear that wise when the Chelsea Tractor hits you. Personally I’d have CT’s off of the road, in general they’re nothing but a status symbol and inconvenience to other road users.
You'd have Chelsea Tractors off the road yet by avoiding ever buying a small car, you're contributing to the ever upwards rise in average size of cars. There's no end in sight without some legislation, which doesn't seem terribly likely in the current climate, meaning that today's CTs will be small compared to those of the 2030s. Well, we can always hope that at some point fashion turns and people start preferring low-slung sports cars or something.
Well that’s one way of looking at things but is the personal criticism actually helpful? If you look back through the thread (9 Jul 2021, 11:40am) then you’ll be able to see that I’ve made suggestions as to what size cars should be limited too and I do drive something similar - it’s modest but very practical. I’ve also explained the reality of driving a small car and being involved in a collision with larger vehicles, and that avoiding such collisions - or indeed any collisions - is not necessarily within our control.

I would very much like to see legislation that limits the size of cars available to the general public and I would very much like sports vehicles to not be available either. IMHO sports driving is for the race track and not the shared space known as the public highways.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

If it comes across as personal criticism, it's only because you've given yourself as an individual example. It wasn't meant as such. It was directed at the trend towards larger vehicles, which, for (among other reasons) personal safety is general and IMO almost entirely negative in its effects both on safety and more widely. It's hard to say how many of us realise that we are participants in a continual escalation we can never win; certainly the manufacturers and regulators know this.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

It's comparable, roughly, to a situation I find myself in right now: I've ordered something off Amazon. Many people do this purely for convenience without thought for wider consequences, whereas I know (or consider) this to be wrong (destructive of values). The contribution to those destructions is equal whether done by me or those others, but intent has to be taken into account too...
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by ANTONISH »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 12:13pm It's comparable, roughly, to a situation I find myself in right now: I've ordered something off Amazon. Many people do this purely for convenience without thought for wider consequences, whereas I know (or consider) this to be wrong (destructive of values). The contribution to those destructions is equal whether done by me or those others, but intent has to be taken into account too...
After a couple of times being involuntarily being signed up for Amazon prime I avoid using them - which is a very minor inconvenience.
It's also the source of a popular scam where you are phoned to tell you that they are about to take your first monthly payment and then direct you to a colleague who will cancel your membership (in return for your financial details).
I have found this follows an Amazon purchase - another reason to avoid.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by Oldjohnw »

At the time I had my Hornet Dad had a Triumph Dolomite Sprint.

Now that was a car!

Sorry to have moved on from Citroen Amis.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

You'd have Chelsea Tractors off the road yet by avoiding ever buying a small car, you're contributing to the ever upwards rise in average size of cars. There's no end in sight without some legislation
This is why legislation *is* needed - the tragedy of the commons and game theory both show that personal decisions with internal benefits but external costs will always end up being taken to benefit the decision maker.

In much the same way the insane idea of leaving mask wearing to “personal choice” when the benefit isn’t personal, but to the remainder of society…
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Re: Citroen Ami - Waddya Reckon?

Post by mattsccm »

I rather like th idea if not the execution.
There is a real need for something bigger than an electric cart as used by the elderly and invalid (thoise chairs on wheels, some with a plastic cover) but smaller and simpler than a car. The agricutural world uses them, calling the UTV's or the trade name of Gators (Very American link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side-by-side_(vehicle) or maybe a bit smaller. Shove a battery poweered engine instead and you are away. I know a few rural farming pensioners who use theirs for the shopping and errand running. Great for a couple of miles to the shops etc or a pub lunch.
I feel that the safety issue is a red herring. I for one would happily drive an old Mini. Everyone I talk to about this feels the same way. We are adding more complexity for no reason to our cars. A mate in the car designing industry told me on Sunday that withing his industry as his level the demand is for small, simple cars not whoppers. Of course thats not what the makers feel.
The UTV fits the bill perfectly and with a battery it would be perfect. Maybe even a touch smaller. They thing in the original post is way to complex and for a start needs some decent bumpers.
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