Uninsured e scooters seized

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mattheus
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mattheus »

simonineaston wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 5:35pm
Yes, but if you stand in a city centre like Bristol, you will see dozens of escooters before you see an (obviously) illegal driver.
I don't agree with that observation. What with Voi users not following the guidance (travelling two up) or breaking laws, (like running red lights, or riding under the influence of sundry drugs) and privately-owned scooter users who aren't supposed to be on public roads at all, let alone on modded versions capable of some serious high speeds and with limited braking power, I'd say a minority are using their e-scooter legally. The reports of rising numbers presenting at A&E is what mainly concerns me, though...
I think you've misread my observation. I was responding to this comment about CAR drivers (I'd generally call the others scooter-ists, or riders, or escooter users.)
mjr wrote: ↑30 Jul 2021, 11:42am
Pavement driving, red light jumping, yellow box squatting, parking on double yellows, jumping out across give-ways, parking across junctions, reckless overtaking, some of the more excessive speeding... enough widespread illegal driving seems pretty obvious to me even without hidden offences like the 2 in 7 overdue MOTs and 1 in 5 who can't see well enough.

And it's ignored so widely, not only by police, that I'm having to defend this claim even here!
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simonineaston
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonineaston »

Ah-ha - I see what you mean. Yes, I agree - I'm sure if the visibility of uninsured / unmot'ed / untaxed vehicles were to be rendered obvious by some magic (I'm thinking of those X-ray spex that used to be advertised in the comic mags of yesterday :lol: ) I think we'd be horrified...
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Not the band...
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mattheus
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mattheus »

Crazy thread drift alert ...
simonineaston wrote: 31 Aug 2021, 10:05am Ah-ha - I see what you mean. Yes, I agree - I'm sure if the visibility of uninsured / unmot'ed / untaxed vehicles were to be rendered obvious by some magic (I'm thinking of those X-ray spex that used to be advertised in the comic mags of yesterday :lol: ) I think we'd be horrified...iu-4.jpeg
Oh wow - blast from the past! I always wonder if I imagined those adverts ...

Any fans of "X-Ray specs" - the band - should enjoy the recent BBC docco on Polly Styrene.
awavey
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by awavey »

PH wrote: 31 Aug 2021, 9:35am
awavey wrote: 30 Aug 2021, 10:16pm and Im increasingly aware of ebikes on the road that people must be seriously modding as well,though maybe its as easy as chipping ECUs in cars used to be, as some of the speeds Ive seen them reach they are giving mopeds a hard time to keep up
I've noted them as well, however the vast majority of E-bikes I see comply with the regulations, as do an even larger proportion of those sold. That's what we'd get with E-scooter regulation, with a clear distinction between what's permitted and what isn't and most of those manufactured and sold would conform. It'd be nice if there was then some enforcement of that, but the inability to police the roads adequately doesn't offer much hope.
yes that would certainly help I think, but I was just shocked by the speed of what looked like retail versions of ebikes but had clearly been modified somehow, as their motor assist should have cut out at the speed I was hitting, and yet they not only passed me with a clear speed advantage, but were easily keeping up with some motorised traffic at built up area kinds of moving speeds.

if they can be "chipped" to break their limits, or easily modified to do that, and that might equally apply to escooters also, then it might be next to impossible to enforce anything that makes them safer for people to use, without going down the path of demanding registration and treating them as vehicles.

which we definitely dont want to start doing.
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mjr
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

awavey wrote: 31 Aug 2021, 9:29pm if they can be "chipped" to break their limits, or easily modified to do that, and that might equally apply to escooters also, then it might be next to impossible to enforce anything that makes them safer for people to use, without going down the path of demanding registration and treating them as vehicles.

which we definitely dont want to start doing.
Why would registration help? Escooters could be checked with a speed gun similar to cars.

Ebikes are more difficult and would require a trip to a rolling road to confirm modification.
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

E-scooters are treated as motor vehicles under UK law. Class Q on your licence.
Category Q
You can drive 2-wheeled and 3-wheeled vehicles without pedals with:

an engine size not more than 50cc if powered by an internal combustion engine
a maximum design speed of no more than 25km/h (15.5mph)
This category also includes trial e-scooters.
https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories
lbomaak2
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by lbomaak2 »

lbomaak2 wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 8:46am Since e-scooters have their motor limited to the same speed (25km/h) as e-bikes, and their mass is no greater than an e-bike, logic dictates that they should be treated in the same way as e-bikes. The current situation where e-scooters are totally illegal in public spaces (except as part of rather limited hire schemes) is totally anomalous. Obviously anyone riding an e-scooter in such a way as to cause injury or nuisance should be stopped (just as if they were riding an e-bike, or an ordinary bicycle, in such a way); but there is no moral justification for Police campaigns against e-scooter riders.

I actually wrote to my MP about this, asking for a moratorium on Police action against e-scooters (except where being ridden dangerously) until new legislation is made. The MP wrote to Kit Malthouse, Minister for Crime and Policing. The Minister wrote back to say that this is a matter for Police forces, so I should write to the Police & Crime Commissioner or the Police force in my county. I wrote to the PCC, who said that it is an operational matter, so I should write to the Police force. I wrote to the Police, who said that it is a matter of legislation, so I should write to my MP. I'm not sure how many times I am prepared to go around this circle; but I have written to my MP again . . .
. . . and now I have had a reply from Kit Malthouse via my MP. Essentially, all he says is that an e-scooter is legally a moped, so anyone riding one has to comply with the same rules as any other moped rider: driving licence, insurance, helmet, etc; he also mentions "road tax", although I thought that had been abolished in the 1930s :roll: . Which is much as pointed out by some other posters on this thread, but it still doesn't make sense to treat them differently from electrically assisted bikes.
mattsccm
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mattsccm »

Methinks that the reason to treat the scooters, assuming legal versions differently is the use they get.
There is a tendency for them to used by kids etc as well as adults and all so often in the same places that kids use normal scooters. That means play ground, pavements, inside shopping centres etc. You wouldn't want that with cycles or ebike so why with e scooters? That puts them on the roads which are not really suitable either.
If their use was only the same as bikes then great but sticking a motor under a 12 year old isn't a good move.
BagOSpanners
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by BagOSpanners »

mattsccm wrote: 3 Oct 2021, 8:46am Methinks that the reason to treat the scooters, assuming legal versions differently is the use they get.
There is a tendency for them to used by kids etc as well as adults and all so often in the same places that kids use normal scooters. That means play ground, pavements, inside shopping centres etc. You wouldn't want that with cycles or ebike so why with e scooters? That puts them on the roads which are not really suitable either.
If their use was only the same as bikes then great but sticking a motor under a 12 year old isn't a good move.
E-bikes have a minimum age limit of 14 and so making e-scooters legally the same would fix that?
E-scooters near me seem to be used mainly by commuters. I don't think I've ever seen a child on one.
millimole
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by millimole »


BagOSpanners wrote:?
E-scooters near me seem to be used mainly by commuters. I don't think I've ever seen a child on one.
Round here - suburban Leicester - they are exclusively ridden by children and teenagers. I don't think I've seen an adult on one hereabouts.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Here (Bristol) they're mainly used by students and similar adults in their 20s or 30s, teenagers too but never seen a child on one, whether hire or private.
Jdsk
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Jdsk »

"100 spoken to by police in Oxford e-scooter operation":
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19642 ... operation/

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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 3 Oct 2021, 2:27pm Here (Bristol) they're mainly used by students and similar adults in their 20s or 30s, teenagers too but never seen a child on one, whether hire or private.
I think I've seen children on them in Lynn but I think it's simply replaced the mini moto riders, so it's an improvement.
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simonineaston
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonineaston »

teenagers too but never seen a child on one
Saw a child of maybe 14 on a Voi at the week-end, attempting to scoot it manually, so to speak, kicker style... I thought they were locked somehow until activated.
My chums and I are debating who the users of all electric scooters are and how they'd travel if they didn't use scooters. We've concluded the answer is varied - remove the scooters and they'd be on the buses, walking - cycling, maybe, some would be in cars, either theirs or friends or parents. Voi scooters need users to register their driving licence as part of the set-up process, hence my puzzlement of what appeared to be the sub-17 youngster attempting to use one, the other day. Riders of the really fast, powerful, big-wheel jobbies appear to be adult males in their 20s/30s.
Most obvious problem concerning their use as far as I can see is the issue of parking. Clusters of Voi scooters appear in places where there is any room, as per Voi's own guidance, but they can also be left in places that have potential negative impact on other path users, especially anyone with limited mobility or vision imparement. I've moved several, that have either fallen over across paths when originally left on an incline, or else have simply been left upright, right in the middle of a path.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

In some places – Birmingham for instance – Voi have introduced scooter docks in order to tidy up the parking. In fact I've read there are some in Bristol, but not anywhere I've seen. I wish they would (and even better, put the docks on the carriageway not the pavement). And every time I've moved one that's been left in the middle of the pavement or cycle gap, they've always seemed to be locked, so I don't know what the 14 year old was doing. I guess there's some way of bypassing the lock but not activating the motor. Still, it doesn't seem like a terribly efficient way of travelling.
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