Uninsured e scooters seized

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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I should think there will be a general legalisation some time after the commercial opportunities of hiring have been exhausted. Probably with a long interim period of the hires defunct and private ownership still technically illegal on roads but completely normalised, as I'd expect the legalisation not to happen until the next general overhaul of traffic legislation.
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by PH »

thirdcrank wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 7:12am It's hard to believe that some form of street-legal electric scooter isn't on the way.
Yes, it's a question of what and when rather than if such regulation is on the way.
The select committee report last September didn't leave room for doubt and the Government response in December agreed with the bulk of it
https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 0/default/
https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 7/default/
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by PH »

I've just been having a browse around the Pure Electric website and came across the page detailing the five most important facts you need to know about e-scooters. I was expecting it to be about the legality, but no, that isn't mentioned. Fact one is the recommendation to get at least a 350w motor and preferably a 500w, do we know what the hire models are? Twice the power of a heavier e-bike seems excessive.
By the time we get to fact three any idea that they're going to tell you not to ride them in public spaces has disappeared "If you ride where there may be potholes and kerbs, which is common in the UK and across Europe, we strongly advise picking a larger 10in+ diameter wheel."
Though at the bottom, not as one of the important facts, it does say "E-Scooters are not to be used on public roads or pavements. Only on private land with the owner's consent."
I'm not against scooter use, I think they're part of a solution rather than a problem, but I am irked by the way large businesses have been built up with no regard to the legality of their product's use.
https://www.pureelectric.com/pages/the- ... ic-scooter
thirdcrank
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by thirdcrank »

If these are legalised AND in stock before I reach the seventh age of man I fancy one of the big ones. Thanks for that link
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mjr
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

simonhill wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 7:40pm Hard to think of anything else that is so obviously illegal, that is allowed to carry on without any/much police attention.
Really? Illegal car driving comes pretty readily to my mind.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by thirdcrank »

That's what I was getting at. Once upon a time it was a lengthy business checking the insurance cover for motor vehicles but now the ANPR blows the metaphorical whistle and the great majority of insurance can be checked online.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Fact one is the recommendation to get at least a 350w motor and preferably a 500w, do we know what the hire models are?
.
The Voi hire models are 450W but this does not equate to higher speed. It might be partly to compensate for the lack of leg-power input but it's mostly to ensure longer battery life, less frequent recharging. The speed is any case limited to 25km/h, which in the case of scooters is a hard cut-off: you can't exceed by pedalling, obviously, and are very unlikely to do so downhill as the motor simply cuts out. There are a few other companies operating licensed hire schemes but I presume they're all using 450W as it seems to be what the legislation allows.
simonhill
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonhill »

mjr wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 10:08am
simonhill wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 7:40pm Hard to think of anything else that is so obviously illegal, that is allowed to carry on without any/much police attention.
Really? Illegal car driving comes pretty readily to my mind.
Certainly in quantity, but I said "obviously illegal".

If you see a car driving down the road, it is difficult to tell if there is no insurance, tax, etc. Likewise if the driver is drunk, not wearing a belt properly, texting, etc. Also the errant car is buried under the mass of the legal cars.

A non hire scooter is illegal, full stop. See one and you know. That was what I meant.
thirdcrank
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by thirdcrank »

Also as I tried to say, the people who agitate for the police to crackdown on things can see a scooter when they cannot identify an uninsured vehicle. This is like pavement cycling and playing football in the street.

The technology now available makes the identification of uninsured vehicles easy, but there's nobody to do it.
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mjr
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

Pavement driving, red light jumping, yellow box squatting, parking on double yellows, jumping out across give-ways, parking across junctions, reckless overtaking, some of the more excessive speeding... enough widespread illegal driving seems pretty obvious to me even without hidden offences like the 2 in 7 overdue MOTs and 1 in 5 who can't see well enough.

And it's ignored so widely, not only by police, that I'm having to defend this claim even here!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by thirdcrank »

I completely understand what you are saying and if you search my embarrassing number of posts for the word "collapse" refined if necessary with "traffic policing" - or "enforcement" you will find I have posted comprehensively and at embarrassing length on the subject.

What I'm trying to say is that these "crackdowns" are in response to people who are impressed by them. I'm not going back to look but the article from the local rag originally linked contains all sorts of makeweight stuff: a couple of shoplifters here and a graffiti artist there etc.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Electric scooters are still relatively new. Most societies and cultures have at least a degree of neophobia. They are also an easy thing to "other" because most people aren't using them and the users are by and large young (bear in mind average age of UK population is 41, so even in your 30s you're still young to most people). For these and many other reasons they are an easy thing to crack down on, even if the police themselves realize it's pointless.
nomm
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by nomm »

My doctor friend in A&E (Bristol based) says the spike in significant head injuries from scooters is very concerning, especially... as stated... the modified ones

They explained there is something about angle/type of the fall from these things, with the hands placed on the handlebar, and the forward momentum that makes a face or head plant the most likely outcome.

When I see them...especially the ones with seats? All I can see is the film Wall-E
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simonineaston
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonineaston »

My doctor friend in A&E (Bristol based) says the spike in significant head injuries from scooters is very concerning, especially... as stated... the modified ones
Oh - that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking we should wait to learn about. That's a shame. It's OK to break a finger, or scuff a knee but head injuries - not so good. I've see a rise in e-scooter use over the past few years here in Bristol and they largely & crudely break into 3 types - the Voi, and 2 sorts of privately-owned jobbies, the inexpensive, unmodifed ones and a smaller group of custom scooters, either modified by owners or bought from specilist sources. These can be very fast and are usually ridden by unhelmeted pilots.
S
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lbomaak2
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by lbomaak2 »

Since e-scooters have their motor limited to the same speed (25km/h) as e-bikes, and their mass is no greater than an e-bike, logic dictates that they should be treated in the same way as e-bikes. The current situation where e-scooters are totally illegal in public spaces (except as part of rather limited hire schemes) is totally anomalous. Obviously anyone riding an e-scooter in such a way as to cause injury or nuisance should be stopped (just as if they were riding an e-bike, or an ordinary bicycle, in such a way); but there is no moral justification for Police campaigns against e-scooter riders.

I actually wrote to my MP about this, asking for a moratorium on Police action against e-scooters (except where being ridden dangerously) until new legislation is made. The MP wrote to Kit Malthouse, Minister for Crime and Policing. The Minister wrote back to say that this is a matter for Police forces, so I should write to the Police & Crime Commissioner or the Police force in my county. I wrote to the PCC, who said that it is an operational matter, so I should write to the Police force. I wrote to the Police, who said that it is a matter of legislation, so I should write to my MP. I'm not sure how many times I am prepared to go around this circle; but I have written to my MP again . . .
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