Deliberate dangerous riding?

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Psamathe
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by Psamathe »

Mike Sales wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 2:13pm
Psamathe wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 1:53pm
And as above, I'd rather have a happy motorist in front of me rather than a frustrated motorist behind me (travelling in my direction).

Ian
I think like that, but for safety I require drivers to have the courtesy to slow down before I courteously move over.
I once moved early and stopped for an oncoming motorist and he carried on without slackening speed. He did not hit me but the gap was rather too small for comfort.
I agree, I try and avoid slowing and don't signal when I pull-in (or slow as late and little as possible depending on the passing place, gravel, etc.) so the following vehicle does not get warning and speed-up before I'm clear.

Ian
biketips666
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by biketips666 »

Mike Sales wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 2:13pm
Psamathe wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 1:53pm
And as above, I'd rather have a happy motorist in front of me rather than a frustrated motorist behind me (travelling in my direction).

Ian
I think like that, but for safety I require drivers to have the courtesy to slow down before I courteously move over.
Yes, in terms of attempting to gently encourage driving behaviour change, it would be a mistake to give the impression that cyclists will just get out of the way of drivers.
awavey
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by awavey »

Psamathe wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 2:23pm
Mike Sales wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 2:13pm
Psamathe wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 1:53pm
And as above, I'd rather have a happy motorist in front of me rather than a frustrated motorist behind me (travelling in my direction).

Ian
I think like that, but for safety I require drivers to have the courtesy to slow down before I courteously move over.
I once moved early and stopped for an oncoming motorist and he carried on without slackening speed. He did not hit me but the gap was rather too small for comfort.
I agree, I try and avoid slowing and don't signal when I pull-in (or slow as late and little as possible depending on the passing place, gravel, etc.) so the following vehicle does not get warning and speed-up before I'm clear.

Ian
I used to do the same, but I pulled over and the car following me stopped, bearing in mind I was completely off the road and they had a clear road ahead,but they stopped, they then beeped me, and I had to wave them to go past me, and I heard them swearing at me that it wasnt clear what I was doing why had I stopped etc etc.

so now I indicate.
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Think you’re confirming the benefit of not signalling! They might have been irritated, but, they weren’t speeding past!! :-)
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mjr
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by mjr »

cycle tramp wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 1:00pm
hamster wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 10:45am So you had to drive behind him at 15mph instead of driving at 30. That cost you a minute over the half mile.
I'm sorry he was discourteous to you, but what really is the problem?

If your time is really precious then perhaps you shouldn't have further wasted it by writing on fora about it?
If time is not the issue, could not the cyclist have pulled off the road before then? After all, I find that pulling off the road to allow a vehicle to pass only adds 7 seconds to my cycle journey per vehicle I've let pass, and it helps maintain goodwill between road users.
Unless of course the cyclist's behaviour was affected by strava?
Maybe the cyclist had a deadline or appointment like a train? Winds on those straight Lincs roads can seriously mess up plans!

Adding only 7 seconds seems to disagree with the old calculation that each stop is like adding another 100m to the ride, unless you ride pretty fast. (over 30mph IIRC)
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Hellhound
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by Hellhound »

Vorpal wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 9:57am Why is the title of this "Deliberate dangerous riding?" There is nothing dangerous in the description that follows.
That seems to the quite unfathomable issue on this thread.
I'll spell it out for you.
1.The road in a narrow,but not single-track, signed National speed limit,ie 60mph road.
2.Any vehicle travelling upto 60mph is within the law to do so.
3.If a vehicle travelling slower deliberately moves to slow a vehicle,without being able to tell what speed the vehicle is approaching then that vehicle is dangerously driving or in this case riding.

As it happens I was approaching at half the designated limit when the rider moved into the middle of the road.Had I being doing the legal limit the outcome could have been different.Sooner or later this will backfire on the rider and he will one be going over the bonnet of a car.That's his choice.If that rider happens to be you or indeed any other member you will get no sympathy from me if you are clearly at fault.

How anyone can see this as anything but dangerous behaviour is beyond me.Oh wait though,he's a cyclist so obviously it's OK?Thank fully I rarely encounter idiots like him,who try as I might,I cannot defend when constantly arguing with friends who don't cycle and think we all need banning from the roads.
mattheus
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by mattheus »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm How anyone can see this as anything but dangerous behaviour is beyond me.Oh wait though,he's a cyclist so obviously it's OK?Thank fully I rarely encounter idiots like him,who try as I might,I cannot defend when constantly arguing with friends who don't cycle and think we all need banning from the roads.
I think I speak for many; we don't need people like you defending us.

Frankly I'll be grateful if you don't cause any fatalities in the near future.

Good luck out there!
Pete Owens
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Re:Competent cyclist ensures their own safety by preventing dangerous overtake

Post by Pete Owens »

Thread title changed to accurately reflect the events described by the OP.

A perfect illustration of why it is a good idea to follow the national cycle traing recomendation to ride in primary position in this sort of situation. While most drivers will wait for a safe opportunity to overtake leaving at least 1.5m clearance there are a minority of impatient morons who will attempt to squeeze past so long as the gap is slghtly wider than their vehicle. Riding in primary position makes it clear to inelectually challenged motorists that overtaking is not possible at that point.
Hellhound wrote: 8 Aug 2021, 9:03pm Returning to our 'van after a day out we were caught behind a rider on a narrow Lincolnshire road that runs alongside the River Witham.It's a narrow unclassified road about 4miles long.It's a road I've cycled a few times that tends to get little motorised traffic other than Farm vehicles and the odd resident.As we approached the rider he glanced back then moved into the middle of the road!
Exactly what Cyclecraft would recommend in such a situation.
We weren't in any particular rush so I followed at 14-17mph for a mile or so when he glanced back a couple more times but still kept his line.There was no way I could pass without going dangerously close even at 15 mph.I didn't toot my horn,I just pottled along behind at a safe distance.
See it works.
Syd
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by Syd »

I’ve spend many hours over the past week driving, and cycling, on narrow, unclassified, roads, single track with passing places that have the national speed limit. There are a range of narrow roads and you may need to describe this one better or link to street view of possible.

Rarely have I got anywhere near close to 60mph and even then for short periods; I.e long straight section where I can see oncoming traffic.

When cycling I would more to primary until I reached a apace that the vehicle could pass safely.

I do not know the road in question but is it wide enough to allow two vehicles to pass and to pass a cyclist riding in secondary whilst giving the requisite space?

Have you asked yourself if there was anything in your driving that could have caused the cyclist to give you the finger? E.g could you have been, or the cyclist felt, you were following too close, or was it a completely unnecessary action by him?
slowster
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by slowster »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm 2.Any vehicle travelling upto 60mph is within the law to do so.
If, as I understand it from the posts above, this refers to Witham Bank (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0904147 ... 312!8i6656), then that is not correct.
Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm As it happens I was approaching at half the designated limit when the rider moved into the middle of the road.Had I being doing the legal limit the outcome could have been different.Sooner or later this will backfire on the rider and he will one be going over the bonnet of a car.That's his choice.If that rider happens to be you or indeed any other member you will get no sympathy from me if you are clearly at fault.
Had you been travelling at or near 60mph and collided with the cyclist, you would probably be convicted of dangerous driving and receive a minimum 12 month ban. There is a high likelihood that a cyclist would be killed in a collision at that speed, in which case you would be convicted of causing death by dangerous driving and receive a prison sentence.

For such offences, the court can require an extended driving test to be passed before the driver is allowed to drive again. From your comments and lack of understanding of road traffic law, I doubt you would pass the test.
Mike Sales
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by Mike Sales »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm
1.The road in a narrow,but not single-track, signed National speed limit,ie 60mph road.
2.Any vehicle travelling upto 60mph is within the law to do so.
Others have corrected most of your misconceptions, but this one is so dangerous I want to emphasise that you are wrong.

A limit means that it is illegal to exceed the posted speed.
It does not mean that it is fine and legal to do that speed.

Roadcraft puts it like this,
Statutory speed limits set the maximum permissible speed, but this is not the same thing as a safe speed. The safe speed is determined by the conditions at the time.
I think that Slowster's link is correct. The road is not suitable for 60mph.
You say that you have cycled the road so you should be aware that it is popular with cyclists. Do you expect them to clear the way instantly for you, or for your "legal" 60mph. driver?

If you were in a hurry you should have used the B1192, if not, then chill out, relax and share the road.
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slowster
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by slowster »

Further to Mike Sales' comment, the point I am making (and of which Hellhound seems to be oblivious) is that these two signs do not mean the same thing. Someone who considers the two signs to be equivalent, and who acts on that interpretation in how they drive, is not safe to drive.

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foxyrider
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by foxyrider »

Mike Sales wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 6:20pm
Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm
1.The road in a narrow,but not single-track, signed National speed limit,ie 60mph road.
2.Any vehicle travelling upto 60mph is within the law to do so.
Others have corrected most of your misconceptions, but this one is so dangerous I want to emphasise that you are wrong.

A limit means that it is illegal to exceed the posted speed.
It does not mean that it is fine and legal to do that speed.

Roadcraft puts it like this,
Statutory speed limits set the maximum permissible speed, but this is not the same thing as a safe speed. The safe speed is determined by the conditions at the time.
I think that Slowster's link is correct. The road is not suitable for 60mph.
You say that you have cycled the road so you should be aware that it is popular with cyclists. Do you expect them to clear the way instantly for you, or for your "legal" 60mph. driver?

If you were in a hurry you should have used the B1192, if not, then chill out, relax and share the road.
here, here :|
Convention? what's that then?
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cycle tramp
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by cycle tramp »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 4:06pm
Vorpal wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 9:57am Why is the title of this "Deliberate dangerous riding?" There is nothing dangerous in the description that follows.
That seems to the quite unfathomable issue on this thread.
I'll spell it out for you.
1.The road in a narrow,but not single-track, signed National speed limit,ie 60mph road.
2.Any vehicle travelling upto 60mph is within the law to do so.
No, that is not so. Whilst the road has a maximum speed limit of 60 miles per hour, the law still expects you to operate your vehicle in a way that is considerate to other road users, and to be able to drive at a speed in which you can stop in the distance that you know to be clear. Should you fail to do so, and your failure to do so results in damage to property, personal injury or death then you may face prosecution even if your speed was below that of the maximum speed limit allowed on that road.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Deliberate dangerous riding?

Post by thirdcrank »

.... the law still expects you to operate your vehicle in a way that is considerate to other road users ....(my emphasis)
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