Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

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Nigel
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Nigel »

the snail wrote: 18 Aug 2021, 4:50pm
Personal choice to break the law and put others at risk? I should think that implementing a speed limiter in a modern vehicle is pretty straightforward - all the technology is already there (gps, electronic sensors and controls etc), just some extra computer code needed. Much better to prevent an accident than to try and punish drivers after the event imo.
Yes, the tech is all there, a few lines of code could activate it in my six year old car - it has GPS and camera to identify speed limits (which it displays on the dashboard), it has a speed limiter as part of the cruise control system. Just need to link the two together....

But, Its sometimes dangerously inaccurate.
My car will report me driving in a field (a new road has been built), it will tell me the limit is 40mph (it was, when they were doing long term upgrades to the near-motorway, that work finished three years ago, and its now 70mph), and it regularly misses speed limit signs buried in hedge vegetation (resulting in both under and over-reading the current speed limit). The GPS in the car has had the manufacturer's updates to mapping - it seems to be about two-three years behind what is actually on the ground.
As currently setup in the car - information - its useful advisory information. As a driver, I can take that advice add it to what I can
see and respond appropriately.
I'd find a car which suddenly decided to slow to 40mph on a busy 70mph near-motorway to be extremely dangerous.

In contrast, my much older stand-alone Garmin sat-nav gets free map updates and is usually correct on the speed limits. Or my phone has up-to-date information. But neither is linked into the car's controls.


- Nigel
Debs
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Debs »

the snail wrote: 18 Aug 2021, 4:50pm
Debs wrote: 17 Aug 2021, 4:10pm
Useful for electric vehicles perhaps but; personal choice vs compulsory for all?

Make fitting of GPS dash-cams in cars compulsory and the roads would soon become a safer place.
This would be far easier to do and implement than speed limiters...
Less crashes, cheaper insurance, the crash culprits would be proven on film and telemetry tracking :)
Personal choice to break the law and put others at risk? I should think that implementing a speed limiter in a modern vehicle is pretty straightforward - all the technology is already there (gps, electronic sensors and controls etc), just some extra computer code needed. Much better to prevent an accident than to try and punish drivers after the event imo.
There's no chance of putting speed limiters into all cars, the idea is complete fantasy, it would cost most people a huge garage bill to get fitted, probably lead to Gov forcing older vehicles off the road so the whole gambit would become a huge expense for the less well off, and the biggest reason it wouldn't work because the serial speed offenders would simply tinker to override it anyway.
However, compulsory GPS dash-cams would work because they're far easier fitted, cost far less, and be far more popular with benefits such as cheaper insurance, and which would in turn cause people to drive more careful.

Plus - GPS telemetry can be used against drivers who speed.

The facts are most accidents are caused by carelessness, not speeding.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Bmblbzzz »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 18 Aug 2021, 11:13am
Debs wrote: 17 Aug 2021, 4:10pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 13 Aug 2021, 9:42am

No, but with the increase of electric vehicles it's really easy for speed to creep - there are no engine revs to listen to and no gears to move through. I have complete vestibular loss, so I don't feel acceleration either.. having the speed limiter set is very useful.
Useful for electric vehicles perhaps but; personal choice vs compulsory for all?

Make fitting of GPS dash-cams in cars compulsory and the roads would soon become a safer place.
This would be far easier to do and implement than speed limiters...
Less crashes, cheaper insurance, the crash culprits would be proven on film and telemetry tracking :)
No - this is a societal benefit, like masks. It should not be left to personal choice.

I'd absolutely advocate for all vehicles to carry dashcams and black box recorders that are activated (i.e. flushed to storage) on impact or on driver request.

The existence of a speed limiter shouldn't be noticed by anyone (emergency services vehicles are an obvious exclusion, probably hooked up to the blue lights.)
Well said Bob. This is indeed societal benefit and I'd favour black box recording of speed, acceleration, braking and G-forces in all vehicles. In theory I'd also support some sort of black box-style enforcement of speed limits but I think drivers' experiences show the technology is not quite ready for it yet. In view of that, the EU's ISA system, which is a "soft limiter", seems a decent compromise until some point in the future when it's more reliable.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by [XAP]Bob »

No doubt that the speed limit recognition in my car is bad enough that I use the manual option - although every so often I wish it would tell me when it thinks the limit has just dropped below my current speed, only takes something else on the road to have my attention for me to miss a speed limit sign (today* it was a speed limit increase, no harm, no foul).

* There was a team cleaning all the drains along a road, one of them with a red/green stop/go sign on the other side of the road to the vehicle which was being used to clear the drains. On the way back they had progressed to the point where the vehicle blocked the speed limit sign on one side, the other is obscured anyway, and my focus was much more on the worker looking to cross the road (he looked away just as I was about to wave him across, so I continued past and he crossed a few vehicles behind me) to get back to his sign.
Wouldn't take much for that to be the same in the other direction and to miss a 30 sign rather than a 40 one. That continuous 360 degree awareness is what ML vision systems and online GPS systems excel at.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Jdsk »

The EU future requirements don't rely on a single technological change, there's a whole package that should be designed to work together.

For example I don't expect the technology to suddenly brake a car from 70 mph to 40 mph without taking into account what's behind it. And it will know about the change of limit before it comes into play because it won't have got tired or because it's busy doing something else.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 20 Aug 2021, 8:53am, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Jdsk »

Debs wrote: 18 Aug 2021, 5:20pmThe facts are most accidents are caused by carelessness, not speeding.
I don't think of these as independent factors.

And speeding needs to be broken out into exceeding the speed limit and driving too fast for the conditions...

Jonathan
simonhill
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by simonhill »

Accident. Usually a complete misnomer.

Any incident will certainly be made worse by speed and could possibly have been avoided.

Hey, but it ain't as much fun.
the snail
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by the snail »

Debs wrote: 17 Aug 2021, 4:10pm
There's no chance of putting speed limiters into all cars, the idea is complete fantasy, it would cost most people a huge garage bill to get fitted, probably lead to Gov forcing older vehicles off the road
No need to put them in all cars. When they're fitted to all new cars, eventually all the old ones will be scrapped. Before too long most ICE vehicles will be uneconomic or just impractical to run. Also, it only takes one speed limited car to force all the others behind to keep to the limit.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by [XAP]Bob »

And my friends Austin seven has never needed a speed limiter...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Pete Owens
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Pete Owens »

the snail wrote: 24 Aug 2021, 12:03pm No need to put them in all cars. When they're fitted to all new cars, eventually all the old ones will be scrapped. Before too long most ICE vehicles will be uneconomic or just impractical to run. Also, it only takes one speed limited car to force all the others behind to keep to the limit.
Which is indeed how all safety and environmental regulations have been rolled out. Whether that is seat belts, catalytic converters, lead free fuel or in the future EVs.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Speed Limiters on Vehicles From 2022

Post by Bmblbzzz »

A few have been retroactive. The only one I can think of right now is anti-scratch visors for motorcycle helmets – the law was passed and six months, or whatever it was, later, all visors without the right standard were illegal, regardless of when sold or fitted. There must have been a few others.
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