Why do short fun rides start so early?

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PH
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by PH »

thirdcrank wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 11:02am I wonder if this thread was triggered by an assumption that a Cycling UK forum would have a direct input to the operation of Cycling UK and that this was a channel for the effective communication of dissatisfaction.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/contact
Why would that be?
It'd be an error to assume that Cycling UK have any interest or influence on what the groups/clubs under it's umbrella do. As far s I can tell, that's always been the case.
thirdcrank
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by thirdcrank »

I was simply wondering what motivated the thread.

I agree completely that volunteering is at the heart of this and probably always has been. In an earlier age, things may have appeared a bit more formal, but no volunteers = no CTC etc.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=147587

I've already posted my thoughts on volunteers more generally, based on experience of both volunteering and organising volunteers.
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mjr
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mjr »

PH wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 10:54am
mjr wrote: 31 Aug 2021, 1:32pm
PH wrote: 31 Aug 2021, 11:03amOur mid-week day rides do start later, meeting in a café at 10.00 for a 10.30 depart, that's mainly to miss the worst of the work/school traffic and the same people riding at the weekend prefer the 9.00/9.30 starts.
So, not many of them are working full time? It's similar here for most groups. Riding times are mainly set by the people riding: that's inertia.
Who is it you think dictates these start times? First you say it's the organisers, then it's the riders... what's this inertia? I'd hope they were run for the benefit of their members, isn't that the point of clubbing together? If some members want something different, I'd also hope the club considered that, isn't that usually the case? I wouldn't expect a club to make changes to suit a few that didn't suit most, why would they?
- Start times are primarily set by whoever schedules the rides;
- The inertia is that some groups meet at 8am or whatever because that's when they've always met;
- Some groups run for the benefit of their members, some for the benefit of the community and some for other reasons. I don't know which is more common or which is "the point". Some have posted on these forums that the point of CUK these days is a few chain store discounts.
- I don't know whether clubs usually ask members what they want or consider requested changes. Certainly a few seem to have knee-jerk reactions against any suggested change. Surely you have seen examples of that?
- Clubs sometimes make changes to suit a few: one type I've seen several times is Billy Big-Britches getting elected as Chair and then seeking to improve the club or stamp his authority on it (interpretation usually differs) by changing something noticeable. At least twice I've seen an attempt to change ride start location to a pub or shop that has offered free coffee or snacks at ride start or end, ignoring that it is a complete nightmare to reach on a bike from all other directions than where the Billy lived.
What was question about mid week day rides? It's a safe assumption that a large proportion of people not working mid week will be retired.
Just that. You were pointing out that the mid-week riders were fine with an early weekend start. I suggest that it's not particularly informative because most of them are retired so can sleep later on weekdays than someone with the usual set-for-a-lark work start time.
As already said the least popular of the local MG's club rides were the after lunch series we ran for a couple of years, I was disappointed they weren't more popular, I was the instigator so had a vested interest. I don't know why that was, maybe another time and place might have a different outcome.
Yeah, afternoon rides are probably a slightly different topic to the discussion as to why morning/day rides start early rather than at a time that allows most riders to travel to the start after sunrise. Evening rides seem popular but are inevitably limited by most people wanting to be home before midnight, often long before.
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mattheus
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mattheus »

- The inertia is that some groups meet at 8am or whatever because that's when they've always met;
errr ... I think that's only half the story; someone had to choose the time in the first place!

In some cases they thought about who in addition to themselves would like to start at particular times.
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mjr »

mattheus wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 3:20pm
- The inertia is that some groups meet at 8am or whatever because that's when they've always met;
errr ... I think that's only half the story; someone had to choose the time in the first p

In some cases they thought about who in addition to themselves would like to start at particular times.
I said right at the start it is only half the story.

Maybe they thought about it but it would be better to ask.
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mattheus »

They may well have asked the people who were around at the time - I'm sorry they didn't ask you, that was obviously a mistake.

x
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mjr
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mjr »

mattheus wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 4:39pm They may well have asked the people who were around at the time - I'm sorry they didn't ask you, that was obviously a mistake.
They may have or they may have not asked others. Often, who can tell?

Don't be sorry for anyone not asking me. Be sorry for trying to make this discussion unnecessarily and excessively personal!
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by Paulatic »

mjr wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 4:23pm Maybe they thought about it but it would be better to ask.
That must depend on who you are. I no longer lead rides but when I did it was to my convenience. My location for start and my time to start. Any participants could take it or leave it.
I quickly learned trying to please others rarely worked out. The ones you tried to please never turned up.
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PH
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by PH »

mjr wrote: 1 Sep 2021, 2:24pm - Start times are primarily set by whoever schedules the rides;
I'm not going to reply line by line, this one point probably covers them all, apart from not recognising some of the characters you have come across, that may just be a matter of luck, but I find it hard to imagine many clubs would survive if your experience was typical.
Back to the above - There seems to be a lot of "Us and Them" in all your points and there is an element of truth in that with all clubs I've known. There's those happy to organise and those happy to have others do that. IMO that's only a problem if people are excluded from the organising and I've never been in a club where that was the case.
As for who the rides are organised for - I'd hope any group had an eye on future members, but first and foremost it has to satisfy it's current participants. I know of examples where people have turned out to support a new venture, but no one is going to come out week after week if what's on offer doesn't suit them.
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by pwa »

Especially on Sundays, if you begin a ride quite early you can substantially reduce your exposure to traffic. The later you leave it, the busier the roads will be. Perhaps that motivates some organisers to pick early start times.
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by simonhill »

If rides were timed to avoid traffic, surely the start times would have changed over the years. Traffic on a Sunday is very different now than 20 years ago, but the early start has remained (or so it's reported).

An 8 o clock start may avoid traffic, but the ride then carries on through the much busier morning.

8 o clock start - partly inertia, partly get it done and dusted in half a day is my guess. My rides usually start about 11 and end 3 ish, so more like a full day pleasantly used, with time for a leisurely breakfast, a few sandwiches for lunch and a cuppa at the end. Cut the grass on Monday.
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mjr
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote: 2 Sep 2021, 5:03am Especially on Sundays, if you begin a ride quite early you can substantially reduce your exposure to traffic. The later you leave it, the busier the roads will be. Perhaps that motivates some organisers to pick early start times.
There may be less traffic but it is disproportionately dangerous, as I outlined in viewtopic.php?p=1634651#p1634651

Organisers who care about rider safety, especially of lone riders heading to the start, should start later.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by thirdcrank »

One thing about being any sort of volunteer is that you are under absolutely no compulsion to carry on volunteering. You volunteer for things that suit you. Obviously, you have to meet the criteria of the organisation eg in normal times I volunteer to help with reading in a local primary school. I meet the criteria eg enhanced background checks, being literate and reliable (in terms of keeping commitments made) and I stick to the school rules and timetable: no turning up at 0800 on a Sunday and expecting a line of kids wanting to read. Beyond that, I chose that particular school because my granddaughter goes there and I go in on the two afternoons when I'd be walking her to our house anyway; I can see the school from our house.

There was a thread with a post from si a little while ago which I took to mean that the typical ride leader volunteer was part of the problem from his POV and that Cycling UK should be funding the training and employment of professional ride leaders who would attract CUK's target "audience" to cycling.
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 2 Sep 2021, 12:03pm One thing about being any sort of volunteer is that you are under absolutely no compulsion to carry on volunteering. You volunteer for things that suit you. Obviously, you have to meet the criteria of the organisation eg in normal times I volunteer to help with reading in a local primary school.
Thankyou

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thirdcrank
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Re: Why do short fun rides start so early?

Post by thirdcrank »

One of my points among my waffle is that although volunteering is by definition unpaid, it does not go unrewarded. I gain palpable benefits in terms of my general feeling of well-being after a couple of hours interacting with children. My altruism is limited eg I'd not commute twenty-five miles to do it. I fancy volunteer ride leaders are similar.
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