Marcus Aurelius wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 4:18pm
The standards of driving seem to have plumbed new depths of late, and the levels of aggression are way up too. I got knocked of my bike by a bus a couple of weeks back ( he cut straight across me / Right hooked me) I put an official complaint in ( there were cameras all over the bus and loads of witnesses ). I was informed that the driver has been dismissed for gross misconduct this week. I was also nearly hit by a taxi, as I was pushing my bike across a zebra crossing last week, fortunately the motorcyclist on the other side of the road ( who did stop ) got it on his GoPro, and we both reported the driver to his firm, and I’ve been informed that he has also been dismissed. I’ve never known anything like it, it’s gone mental since the pandemic ( not that it was that great before ).
And you only have the word of their respective employers that these idiots have been dismissed,which takes the pressure off the companies from being investigated.
An easy way out for the employers.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Postboxer wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 12:30pm
Seems to be hardly any observation of the road ahead these days, the amount of traffic jams outside of school caused by people just blindly driving into pinch points that either already have an oncoming car in them, or have no space out of the far end is alarming, then the drivers with the sense to hang back, get beeped at or worse.
Perhaps people see the cyclists, start planning on overtaking, sometimes wait for a safer place to overtake, then concentrate on the overtake, without thinking that by now they are nearly at their turning.
Absolutely - however I think it's a symptom of a larger issue, which is plaguing our society; 'Not being able to plan more than one action ahead' which now seems to be an issue with some private businesses, as well as being present in local and central government.
It's perhaps another strong reason why taking the primary position on the road. Perhaps if the motorist behind sees both you in relation to the turning from the road that they will be taking, they have a better understanding as to whether its worth them overtaking you.
cycle tramp wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 6:29pmIt's perhaps another strong reason why taking the primary position on the road. Perhaps if the motorist behind sees both you in relation to the turning from the road that they will be taking, they have a better understanding as to whether its worth them overtaking you.
It's worth noting that prime position is not a guarantee that you'll deter an unsafe/dangerous pass.
On my ride home last night I pulled up in the advanced stop box t-junction on a red light and took centre position intending to and signalling my intent to turn left. The vehicle behind was not signalling either direction, but their road positioning 'suggested' a right turn. The left filter light went green and I set off left in the middle of the lane. The car behind decided they were doing left overtaking me on the bend in the process, and in doing so they crossed the white line directly into the path of oncoming traffic from the left. This left them with nowhere to go other than to cut diagonally across my path and they were VERY close to pinning me up against the curb as I cut in to avoid hitting them.
It's only a short section of road before the next set of lights which I generally get to before most 'normal' drivers, and I wouldn't have held them up anyway because the lights were on red. There really was no excuse for what they did.
cycle tramp wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 6:29pmIt's perhaps another strong reason why taking the primary position on the road. Perhaps if the motorist behind sees both you in relation to the turning from the road that they will be taking, they have a better understanding as to whether its worth them overtaking you.
It's worth noting that prime position is not a guarantee that you'll deter an unsafe/dangerous pass.
Gosh, no. Sadly nothing prevents people from using the road in a dangerous, ignorant or unsafe manner. Thanks for posting, and I was saddened to hear about the way that you were treated.
Equally by taking the primary position I may be at greater risk from those drivers who can not see, or are medicated, or driving under the influence...
However, because I've taken the primary position it does mean that anyone wishing to overtake me has to actually think about doing so, rather than just a knee jerk reaction. Strangely the most common type of person trying to undertake me seems to be racing type cyclists.... which was surprising and is now mild irrating (I mean why would you do that..? Why would you attempt to cycle between another cyclist and the kerb, ditch or hedge at some 16 to 22 mph on a stretch of road which has storm drains, iron works, pot holes and ruts in it?)
MikeytheBikey wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 11:08am
Was on my way home in my car yesterday. Saw a large 4x4 overtake a small group of cyclists on a narrow road, leaving them hardly any room, then turn left in front of them. The cyclists started shouting, understandably.
Totally needless & potentially dangerous behaviour on the driver's part. They just needed to hold back for a few yards until they reached their turn off.
I'm sure this will be no surprise to many cyclists. I just don't understand what posseses people to drive like that.
MGIF - first rule of driving. Test examiners now fail drivers who fail to make progress.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Postboxer wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 12:30pm
Seems to be hardly any observation of the road ahead these days, the amount of traffic jams outside of school caused by people just blindly driving into pinch points that either already have an oncoming car in them, or have no space out of the far end is alarming, then the drivers with the sense to hang back, get beeped at or worse.
Second rule of motoring - if there's a gap/space fill it.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
cycle tramp wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 6:29pmIt's perhaps another strong reason why taking the primary position on the road. Perhaps if the motorist behind sees both you in relation to the turning from the road that they will be taking, they have a better understanding as to whether its worth them overtaking you.
It's worth noting that prime position is not a guarantee that you'll deter an unsafe/dangerous pass.
However, because I've taken the primary position it does mean that anyone wishing to overtake me has to actually think about doing so, rather than just a knee jerk reaction. Strangely the most common type of person trying to undertake me seems to be racing type cyclists.... which was surprising and is now mild irrating (I mean why would you do that..? Why would you attempt to cycle between another cyclist and the kerb, ditch or hedge at some 16 to 22 mph on a stretch of road which has storm drains, iron works, pot holes and ruts in it?)
I think giving drivers a conscious decision to make is pretty much all we can do to try and deter dangerous behaviour. Riding prime at pinch points/junctions/roundabouts is one of the best ways to try and achieve this. You need to have 360 degree awareness and an escape plan just in case though...
As for cyclists undertaking another rider they are ignoring the advice of the Highway Code rule 163 and technically could be prosecuted under section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. I'm not sure why they would want to do it anyway. Certainly the only reason I ride prime is to avoid danger, so anyone undertaking me is putting themselves into a dangerous position such as the door zone or smack bang in the middle of a blind junction, and putting me at risk in the process.
MikeF wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 8:59am
Second rule of motoring - if there's a gap/space fill it.
Last week I was in my car waiting patiently in the first space clear of an impending obstruction when I was overtaken by a short sighted berk who turned a few seconds wait into a couple of minutes of stand-off and reluctant ‘just enough room for a fag paper’ manoeuvring.
Just like this video: https://youtu.be/ixVTA_mwzvI
I watch this guys videos a lot. He talks a great deal of sense and most road users could learn from him.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
MikeytheBikey wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 11:08am
Was on my way home in my car yesterday. Saw a large 4x4 overtake a small group of cyclists on a narrow road, leaving them hardly any room, then turn left in front of them. The cyclists started shouting, understandably.
Totally needless & potentially dangerous behaviour on the driver's part. They just needed to hold back for a few yards until they reached their turn off.
I'm sure this will be no surprise to many cyclists. I just don't understand what posseses people to drive like that.
MGIF - first rule of driving. Test examiners now fail drivers who fail to make progress.
Making good progress isn't the same as 'must get in front', and it doesn't give people carte blanche to drive recklessly or dangerously.
Making good progress just means driving at or near the speed limit when it's appropriate to do so, taking into account other traffic, situations developing on the road ahead, weather conditions, visibility etc. There's no need to slow other drivers down for no good reason.
MikeytheBikey wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 11:08am
Was on my way home in my car yesterday. Saw a large 4x4 overtake a small group of cyclists on a narrow road, leaving them hardly any room, then turn left in front of them. The cyclists started shouting, understandably.
Totally needless & potentially dangerous behaviour on the driver's part. They just needed to hold back for a few yards until they reached their turn off.
I'm sure this will be no surprise to many cyclists. I just don't understand what posseses people to drive like that.
MGIF - first rule of driving. Test examiners now fail drivers who fail to make progress.
Making good progress isn't the same as 'must get in front', and it doesn't give people carte blanche to drive recklessly or dangerously.
Making good progress just means driving at or near the speed limit when it's appropriate to do so, taking into account other traffic, situations developing on the road ahead, weather conditions, visibility etc. There's no need to slow other drivers down for no good reason.
Hmm.That sets the limit as a target speed instead of a limit, even if it is qualified.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
MikeF wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 8:59am
Second rule of motoring - if there's a gap/space fill it.
Last week I was in my car waiting patiently in the first space clear of an impending obstruction when I was overtaken by a short sighted berk who turned a few seconds wait into a couple of minutes of stand-off and reluctant ‘just enough room for a fag paper’ manoeuvring.
Just like this video: https://youtu.be/ixVTA_mwzvI
I watch this guys videos a lot. He talks a great deal of sense and most road users could learn from him.
He could easily have waited slightly longer for the pedestrians that were crossing but he didn't. He made them retreat.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
MikeF wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 8:35am
MGIF - first rule of driving. Test examiners now fail drivers who fail to make progress.
Making good progress isn't the same as 'must get in front', and it doesn't give people carte blanche to drive recklessly or dangerously.
Making good progress just means driving at or near the speed limit when it's appropriate to do so, taking into account other traffic, situations developing on the road ahead, weather conditions, visibility etc. There's no need to slow other drivers down for no good reason.
Hmm.That sets the limit as a target speed instead of a limit, even if it is qualified.
With respect I disagree. Drivers are expected to use their judgement and decide when it's safe and appropriate to drive at or near the speed limit (making good progress), and when to slow down. You're not expected to drive at the speed limit at all times, regardless of what's going on around you.
But driving slowly at all times isn't a virtue in its own right either. Blocking the free flow of traffic for no good reason is a bad thing. For example, the 'Sunday driver' who pootles along at 30 in a 60mph zone, in good conditions and with an open road ahead, is failing to make good progress, not driving carefully.
Drivers who fail to slow down when conditions require it, or otherwise drive without regard and consideration to other road users, aren't exercising good judgement. They're just impatient/aggressive/reckless (take your pick, or all of the above). It's got nothing to do with speed limits. They'd break the speed limit if it was 15, 10 or 5 miles per hour.
It's worth noting that prime position is not a guarantee that you'll deter an unsafe/dangerous pass.
However, because I've taken the primary position it does mean that anyone wishing to overtake me has to actually think about doing so, rather than just a knee jerk reaction. Strangely the most common type of person trying to undertake me seems to be racing type cyclists.... which was surprising and is now mild irrating (I mean why would you do that..? Why would you attempt to cycle between another cyclist and the kerb, ditch or hedge at some 16 to 22 mph on a stretch of road which has storm drains, iron works, pot holes and ruts in it?)
I think giving drivers a conscious decision to make is pretty much all we can do to try and deter dangerous behaviour. Riding prime at pinch points/junctions/roundabouts is one of the best ways to try and achieve this. You need to have 360 degree awareness and an escape plan just in case though...
Another benefit of riding primary position - and reason I started doing it quite a few years back before I was aware there was a name for it - is having somewhere to "escape to" if someone gets too close. Before that, I had a couple of quite scary moments of being squeezed up against the kerb by passing busses.
Blibbka wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 9:19amAnother benefit of riding primary position - and reason I started doing it quite a few years back before I was aware there was a name for it - is having somewhere to "escape to" if someone gets too close. Before that, I had a couple of quite scary moments of being squeezed up against the kerb by passing busses.
Agreed.
And escape routes (including dropped kerbs and side roads) affect my decisions about positioning and filtering.
