matt2matt2002 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 10:53pm
All good comments and views above.
Part of my roundabout tactic is eye contact.
I only move out if our eyes have met.
Sounds romantic?
But it works for me.
Poor tactic IMO. "Looked but failed to see" is a top factor in collisions. It's said that this Beatles song was written after Lennon was cut up by a driver jumping out at a junction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH6i9JAdJrQ
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
The eye contact thing works because being looked at is something we tend to notice.
In Darwinian terms we have not had sufficient generations to adapt to motorised traffic - but there most certainly was an evolutionary advantage (long predating the evolution of humans as a species) in noticing an approaching predator.
It is not a matter of trying to check whether a driver has looked vaguely in your direction, but by staring directly at them you are increasing the likelyhood that when they look in your direction it is you that they will see. In the same way if you were to stare at someone across a crowded room they will notice you (and so will their boyfreind)
Pete Owens wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 10:24am
The eye contact thing works because [...] by staring directly at them you are increasing the likelyhood that when they look in your direction it is you that they will see.
It does not work. As you correctly write later, all it does is increase the likelihood. It is not a certainty, so you cannot rely on it, so it does not work. Some motorists are so switched-off that they will look you directly in the eye and drive right into you. Steer clear as much as possible, aiming to be able to pedal out of their path sideways before their bonnet hits you, and practise emergency stops and so-called "escape turns".
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
The big thing here with roundabouts built on UK principles is that road users are expected to be looking in at least two ways at once to maximise traffic flow. I'm not suggesting that people generally haven't got a broad field of vision but it doesn't imo fit in with invariably establishing eye contact. There's a human tendency to make assumptions - we couldn't live without doing so - but on roundabouts drivers tend to assume that all traffic will move at motor vehicles speeds and riders may assume they have been noticed.
axel_knutt wrote: ↑16 Oct 2021, 4:24pmAs big roundabouts go, my favourite is the Greenstead roundabout in Colchester: it has two-way traffic, so you can go whichever way is shortest. https://goo.gl/maps/JCLNTmTaeEU2XugeA
axel_knutt wrote: ↑16 Oct 2021, 4:24pmAs big roundabouts go, my favourite is the Greenstead roundabout in Colchester: it has two-way traffic, so you can go whichever way is shortest. https://goo.gl/maps/JCLNTmTaeEU2XugeA
axel_knutt wrote: ↑16 Oct 2021, 4:24pmAs big roundabouts go, my favourite is the Greenstead roundabout in Colchester: it has two-way traffic, so you can go whichever way is shortest. https://goo.gl/maps/JCLNTmTaeEU2XugeA
In 2005, it was voted the worst roundabout in a survey of the general public by a UK insurance company.[6] In September 2007, the Magic Roundabout was named as one of the world's worst junctions by a UK motoring magazine.[7] In December 2007, BBC News reported a survey identifying The Magic Roundabout as one of the "10 Scariest Junctions in the United Kingdom";[8] however, the roundabout provides a better throughput of traffic than other designs and has an excellent safety record, since traffic moves too slowly to do serious damage in the event of a collision.[9]
In 2010, the National Cooperative Highway Research Program concluded that the roundabout reduces injurious crashes by three quarters.[10][11]
I really wouldn't call it scary, especially not on a bike. It's confusing to people because they try to think of it as one roundabout; really it's a series of mini-roundabouts in a ring. Far better (or less bad, at least) to cycle than many big roundabouts eg at motorway junctions. For one thing, the speeds are much lower and there are fewer lanes.
That survey should have also asked the question "Have you ever used that junction?" then discounted anyone who answered "no".
The thing is it was a famous junction that everyone has heard of - and seen overhead photos of the whole thing looking very complicated (and more to the point unfamiliar). Whereas to a user it is a number of small, simple, low speed junctions to be tackled one at a time.
While not relevant for cyclists... Fifty years ago an opinion survey would have identified Spaghetti Junction (aka M6 J6). Again, it was somewhere everyone had heard of and had seen overhead photos which do look very confusing: https://goo.gl/maps/JQWbkcEyTiECY3q5A
To drive through the junction is entirely unremarkable - at each node in the tangle you make a simple left/right choice
Yes, precisely. It's a series of mini-roundabouts and at each one you can go in one of two directions. Just take it step by step and it's far more bike-friendly, and probably motorist-friendly too, than if it had been one large roundabout with five exits.
Pete Owens wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 11:58am
That survey should have also asked the question "Have you ever used that junction?" then discounted anyone who answered "no".
Should opinions about building a bridge only count if they are from swimmers who have the crossed the shark-infested river?
It's worth asking and then looking at the difference, but I would not completely discount the views of those who have refused to use it.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
There were several surveys and I don't know, but you can dig for the answers if you want to, what the questions were. "Which is the scariest roundabout you have ever used?" and "Which roundabouts scare you so much you don't dare use them?" are separate questions with different answers. A third one would be "Which roundabout, if any, has scared you so much after using it that you never dared use it again?"
