i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

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David2504
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by David2504 »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 1:02pm
jawaka wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 12:48pm I use the smart trainer mostly anyway, as Alpe d'huez in 1 1/2 hours at home for example is easier to fit in than 3 hours plus when I am a 3/4 parent to a grandson.

How do other cycling drivers feel ?
How do I feel? Risks are objectively low, and indoor trainers are the work of Beelzebub and worse than sleet and darkness.

Don't let the [rude word removed] grind you down.

But that's all personal preferences - each to their own.
When there’s a local amber weather warning for rain with 300MM predicted in 24 hours in some locations and accompanying strong winds as is the case today, an indoor trainer has some advantages
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mjr
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by mjr »

Mike Sales wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:10pm How can this be?
We have the safest roads in Europe, and they get safer every year.
We are told.
Doesn't mean they feel nice. If they scared almost all walkers, cyclists and horse riders off the roads, it would seem very safe in the statistics. Doesn't make it right, though.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by mjr »

David2504 wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:46pm When there’s a local amber weather warning for rain with 300MM predicted in 24 hours in some locations and accompanying strong winds as is the case today, an indoor trainer has some advantages
which are...? Postponing a trip is often possible and riding an indoor trainer doesn't get any errands done.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by roubaixtuesday »

David2504 wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:46pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 1:02pm
jawaka wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 12:48pm I use the smart trainer mostly anyway, as Alpe d'huez in 1 1/2 hours at home for example is easier to fit in than 3 hours plus when I am a 3/4 parent to a grandson.

How do other cycling drivers feel ?
How do I feel? Risks are objectively low, and indoor trainers are the work of Beelzebub and worse than sleet and darkness.

Don't let the [rude word removed] grind you down.

But that's all personal preferences - each to their own.
When there’s a local amber weather warning for rain with 300MM predicted in 24 hours in some locations and accompanying strong winds as is the case today, an indoor trainer has some advantages
Mountain bike weather!
David2504
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by David2504 »

mjr wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:49pm
David2504 wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:46pm When there’s a local amber weather warning for rain with 300MM predicted in 24 hours in some locations and accompanying strong winds as is the case today, an indoor trainer has some advantages
which are...? Postponing a trip is often possible and riding an indoor trainer doesn't get any errands done.
You don’t drown or die from hypothermia
Aikon
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Aikon »

Since returning from a period of cycling in Europe 8 years ago I’ve switched mostly to riding on byways, bridleways & cycle paths, I do ride a bit on the road, and a bit on an indoor bike but am happiest off-road. Riding the King Alfred Way in inclement weather recently was the best riding I’ve enjoyed in some time.
millimole
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by millimole »

mjr wrote:
Mike Sales wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 6:10pm How can this be?
We have the safest roads in Europe, and they get safer every year.
We are told.
Doesn't mean they feel nice. If they scared almost all walkers, cyclists and horse riders off the roads, it would seem very safe in the statistics. Doesn't make it right, though.
I recently read (on a motorbike blog) about the distinction between 'feeling comfortable' and being 'safe'.
There are roads that feel great to ride on, but have a poor safety record, and, there are roads that feel horrible to ride on, but are actually very safe.

I have had more 'issues' on country lanes than fast straight A roads. For *me* country lanes no longer feel comfortable, but they are safe. Main rural A roads, lightly trafficked, feel comfortable to me, but are probably more risky according to the statistics.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
Phil Fouracre
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Phil Fouracre »

millimole wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 7:10pm
mjr wrote:[quote="Mike Sales" post_id=<a href="tel:1649239">1649239</a> time=<a href="tel:1635354611">1635354611</a> user_id=8429]
How can this be?
We have the safest roads in Europe, and they get safer every year.
We are told.
Doesn't mean they feel nice. If they scared almost all walkers, cyclists and horse riders off the roads, it would seem very safe in the statistics. Doesn't make it right, though.
I recently read (on a motorbike blog) about the distinction between 'feeling comfortable' and being 'safe'.
There are roads that feel great to ride on, but have a poor safety record, and, there are roads that feel horrible to ride on, but are actually very safe.

I have had more 'issues' on country lanes than fast straight A roads. For *me* country lanes no longer feel comfortable, but they are safe. Main rural A roads, lightly trafficked, feel comfortable to me, but are probably more risky according to the statistics.
[/quote]

I thought that country lanes had been proved to be the most dangerous!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Mike Sales
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Mike Sales »

Phil Fouracre wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 8:06pm
I thought that country lanes had been proved to be the most dangerous!
Most casualties per mile cycled?
Most casualties per mile driven?
More cyclists hit than on motorways!
Are there more injuries but fewer deaths? Or vice versa?
Simple statements like "most dangerous" need much qualification.
Britain may have fewer deaths per head of population, but children are more at risk than in most of Europe.
We kill fewer cyclists than the Netherlands per head of population, but rather more per mile ridden.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
ANTONISH
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by ANTONISH »

MikeF wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 4:26pm
ANTONISH wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 9:52am
My partner recently signalled an approaching motorist to slow down on a narrow lane - he did slow momentarily to point out that he was entitled to do 60mph if he chose - national speed limit as is designated for many of these lanes - so in a sense he was right.

Well, he was wrong, he wasn't. Your partner was also entitled to being passed in a safe manner.
You are right that he was wrong - maybe I'm wrong in saying the national speed limit is 60mph (maybe it's 50).
Personally I'd like to see the National speed limit reduced to 30mph and faster speeds only allowed when it is deemed safe.
For the most part the signage would already exist for this.
My driving speed on a narrow lane is usually about 20mph or lower - even so I often find myself having to brake hard or take avoiding action when confronted by a motorist travelling at an unsafe speed - ( I usually avoid driving on these lanes).
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by MikeF »

ANTONISH wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 9:11am
MikeF wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 4:26pm
ANTONISH wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 9:52am
My partner recently signalled an approaching motorist to slow down on a narrow lane - he did slow momentarily to point out that he was entitled to do 60mph if he chose - national speed limit as is designated for many of these lanes - so in a sense he was right.

Well, he was wrong, he wasn't. Your partner was also entitled to being passed in a safe manner.
You are right that he was wrong - maybe I'm wrong in saying the national speed limit is 60mph (maybe it's 50).
Personally I'd like to see the National speed limit reduced to 30mph and faster speeds only allowed when it is deemed safe.
For the most part the signage would already exist for this.
My driving speed on a narrow lane is usually about 20mph or lower - even so I often find myself having to brake hard or take avoiding action when confronted by a motorist travelling at an unsafe speed - ( I usually avoid driving on these lanes).
My point was that regardless of what the speed limit is, that does not give anyone an entitlement to drive at that speed.
Essentially he should have been driving at a safe speed and that doesn't bear any relation to the speed limit.
That driver was completely wrong in his assumption.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
MikeF
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by MikeF »

I agree the national speed limit is now a bit of an absurdity and needs revision, but it is mainly to result of history when speed limits were confined to mainly urban areas. I can remember he days when there wasn't a national speed limit at all, but that was when most cars couldn't travel at 60mph.
Your idea of signing roads where vehicles can travel faster rather than vice-versa is a good one and might reduce this "entitlement" misconception that is in the heads of some drivers, although that might still result in drivers travelling too fast. At least it would do away with the misconception that 60 mph is OK for a narrow twisty lane.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
ANTONISH
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by ANTONISH »

MikeF wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 9:51am
ANTONISH wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 9:11am
MikeF wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 4:26pm Well, he was wrong, he wasn't. Your partner was also entitled to being passed in a safe manner.
You are right that he was wrong - maybe I'm wrong in saying the national speed limit is 60mph (maybe it's 50).
Personally I'd like to see the National speed limit reduced to 30mph and faster speeds only allowed when it is deemed safe.
For the most part the signage would already exist for this.
My driving speed on a narrow lane is usually about 20mph or lower - even so I often find myself having to brake hard or take avoiding action when confronted by a motorist travelling at an unsafe speed - ( I usually avoid driving on these lanes).
My point was that regardless of what the speed limit is, that does not give anyone an entitlement to drive at that speed.
Essentially he should have been driving at a safe speed and that doesn't bear any relation to the speed limit.
That driver was completely wrong in his assumption.
I've just seen your latest post and I think we concur
At the moment a driver observed travelling at say 50mph (too fast) on a narrow lane with a national speed limit hasn't committed an offence.
It's only a few years since the club cyclists near Rhyll were mown down by a motorist travelling at the speed limit and who hit black ice.
I would say he was driving too fast for the conditions but the only penalty he incurred was £150 for having three defective tyres which were deemed not to have contributed to the "accident".
It's probably difficult to have a law of driving to the conditions - the only thing I've seen like that is in France where motorway speed limits are changed when there is rain. Hence IMO we should have lower limits and greater enforcement - of course that won't happen.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Phil Fouracre wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 8:06pmI thought that country lanes had been proved to be the most dangerous!
Define "country lanes"!

A single-track tiny lane up on a Welsh hillside... I feel 100% safe on that. I'll swing out to the centre of the lane before bends to get a better view of any (slow) approaching traffic, but otherwise no problem.

A rat-run Buckinghamshire two-lane curvy country road full of satnav-inspired traffic? Not going there unless I really have to.

(For some reason there is an absolute infestation of the latter in the Bicester-Thame-Aylesbury-Leighton Buzzard belt. I don't know whether it's standards of road construction, or patterns of settlement, or the demographic of local car drivers, but it really does have some of the most horrible unclassified roads.)
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Ron
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Ron »

Mike Sales wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 8:16pm Most casualties per mile cycled? Most casualties per mile driven? Are there more injuries but fewer deaths? Or vice versa?Simple statements like "most dangerous" need much qualification.
Unfortunately we measure road safety in terms of number of people killed or seriously injured, but ignoring the number of people choosing not to use their preferred mode of travel on the roads, be it walking, cycling, horse riding etc for reasons of personal safety.
The Road Danger Reduction Forum attempts to address this issue.
https://rdrf.org.uk/road-danger-reduction/
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