i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

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cycle tramp
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by cycle tramp »

I would say that ideally no road user should feel comfortable using any road - if we are comfortable then we are less likely to be aware of any potential dangers (several weeks ago when cycling back from shopping a small brown dog burst through the hedge some 5 feet in front of me as I was attempting to maintain a heady speed of 12 mph)

Equally we should not be afraid to walk, cycle or for those that do ride horses.

However at this point, I feel its something of a numbers game - the more cyclists that motorists see, the more likely that they'll factor this into making decisions about speed and junction approach. If they see no cyclists at all then this too is taken into consideration.

Another way of looking at the situation is that at some point I am going to die, pass away, push up the daises and other wise shuffle off my mortal coil. Together with taxes it is one of life's few certainties. I strongly suspect it will be painful, uncomfortable and undignified. Personally I'd rather not be around when it happens but few get that choice.
It may involve another road user, or perhaps a horse or there's a long shot I might die by a pig falling from a balcony flat. Sadly the chances of being suffocated during an outrageous, nay heroic, act of passion involving multiple partners have vanished to the point of no return.

Having accepted this, I am now free to spend my remaining days attempting to find the time to do what I enjoy. Which includes cycling- and I'd rather spend my days cycling having accepted the notion that I may not return rather than spend the rest of my life feeling that I wanted to cycle but was too afraid to do so.
It's time to go :-)
ANTONISH
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by ANTONISH »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 10:34am
Phil Fouracre wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 8:06pmI thought that country lanes had been proved to be the most dangerous!
Define "country lanes"!

A single-track tiny lane up on a Welsh hillside... I feel 100% safe on that. I'll swing out to the centre of the lane before bends to get a better view of any (slow) approaching traffic, but otherwise no problem.

A rat-run Buckinghamshire two-lane curvy country road full of satnav-inspired traffic? Not going there unless I really have to.

(For some reason there is an absolute infestation of the latter in the Bicester-Thame-Aylesbury-Leighton Buzzard belt. I don't know whether it's standards of road construction, or patterns of settlement, or the demographic of local car drivers, but it really does have some of the most horrible unclassified roads.)
A couple of decades ago the CTC was campaigning on reducing speeds on country lanes.
Obviously there had to be a definition and the CTC was dealing with a civil service very used to prolonging "how many angels on the head of a pin" type arguments to the point where any sane petitioner will give up.

You are very fortunate in having narrow lanes in Wales where you can feel safe - we have similar lanes in Kent but have to deal with drivers who drive at a speed that suits them. (note my comment up thread where I came near to death- I could not have seen that van ahead as it was screened by trees - as is often the case I had to rely on the driver showing some consideration.)
And some fools will drive an HGV up a narrow lane because their Sat Nav tells them to.
thirdcrank
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by thirdcrank »

Obviously there had to be a definition and the CTC was dealing with a civil service very used to prolonging "how many angels on the head of a pin" type arguments to the point where any sane petitioner will give up.
IIRC, the definition the CTC and other campaigners suggested was if the carriageway had no central dividing line. ie was a single lane, two-way road.
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mjr
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 4:14pm
Obviously there had to be a definition and the CTC was dealing with a civil service very used to prolonging "how many angels on the head of a pin" type arguments to the point where any sane petitioner will give up.
IIRC, the definition the CTC and other campaigners suggested was if the carriageway had no central dividing line. ie was a single lane, two-way road.
This was certainly the definition we were pressing for a decade ago. If it's too narrow or minor for a centre line, it's too narrow or minor for 60mph.

The level of disrepair of most such roads near me now means that most drivers go more like 30-40mph if they care about not crashing, which means the ones still doing 60 are generally either:
· experienced drivers of 4x4s with suspensions capable of handling the bumps without flinching, or
· reckless fools that really should be removed from the roads before they damage or kill.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by thirdcrank »

IMO, the only solution to this and similar concerns is the transfer of more traffic enforcement powers and responsibilities to traffic authorities.

I get the impression that one of the strongest ... er .... driving forces is National Highways (successor of the Highways Agency and Highways England.) If I'm right, the irony here is that this is the military wing of the ministry of transport (in its various guises.)

My thinking here is prompted, in part, by the police inspectorate report in this thread

viewtopic.php?p=1508569#p1508569

It used to cause trouble when the police were the only people with the capability to enforce speed limits and traffic management more generally. Now, anybody can install cameras.

I fancy local authority enforcement would be much more robust than the police eg not remotely bothered about complaints about cash cows etc
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foxyrider
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by foxyrider »

In a cycling 'career' covering 5 decades, based in several parts of the country, there have always been roads that i've been less comfortable riding on than others, sometimes only in specific weather conditions. For example, one road that i used a lot was a nightmare if the sun was low, i couldn't see the road which means traffic coming from behind almost certainly couldn't see me - i tried to avoid it if that was likely to be the situation.

I do a lot of miles, @ 250 most weeks which will have everything from busy D/C to unsurfaced byways/bridleways and everything in between, some urban, mostly rural. The roads i'm most 'comfortable' on are two lane rural, the most uncomfortable, two lane 'A' roads. Every road has its dangers, I have more 'moments' on shared bike paths than everywhere else combined, but poor surfaces, poor light, bad junctions etc can make even the most benign routes hazzardous. (there is a junction 200m from the house that has had @ 10 'accidents' this year alone, its on a rat run and in theory in a 20mph zone outside of a school)

I was 'comfortable' on my old commute route but only on the return leg (the in route, a fairly fast downhill run always seemed to be more fraught with unexpected stops, parking and turning), After a dozen years of riding it 5/6 days a week I knew that road, every bump, the light sequences, the likelyhood of turning traffic, use of bus stops, i'd often get home with no recollection of the ride despite having been cut up, close passed and otherwise endangered.

Inappropriate speed (regardless of 'limits'), increasingly larger vehicles and poor surfaces are the things most likely to make me less comfortable, from this aspect, the single track rural lane can be more stressful than a busy almost motorway dual carriageway, more than once i've had close encounters with gargantuan tractors filling the full width of a lane heading towards me at some speed, it has been a close thing more than once. That's without the wildlife, why dp pheasants always try to fly at you and grey squirrels are clearly banned from the Tufty Club, they really have no road sense! My experience and regular riding no doubt colour what I consider to be safe/hazzardous but removing oneself from the roads just cements the car centric view that we shouldn't be there in the first place, don't pay taxes, get in the way, slow everyone down. The lockdown effect was short lived, we've returned to unnecesary school runs, driving for the paper, between shops, the (usually) female SUV driver is a bigger threat to our safety than even tipper drivers and white van man!

To sum up, I am mostly quite comfortable on most roads, its poor maintenance that makes me uncomfortable! (The sunken manhole in the Clifton suicide shelter that caused my inadcertant flying episode last year has, 12 months on, now been repaired :roll: )
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
prestavalve
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by prestavalve »

foxyrider wrote: 29 Oct 2021, 11:42am ...removing oneself from the roads just cements the car centric view that we shouldn't be there in the first place...
No, no, the right way to approach this is to let people who don't ride bicycles tell us why they don't ride bicycles and design a policy around them.
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SupermanVsSnowman
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by SupermanVsSnowman »

I used to be a motorists until just over a year ago I can say that it is unbelievably frustrating. As a motorists you get bummed by the government, bummed by your insurance, penalised for moving too fast, penalised for not moving at all and further ***** when your car needs maintenance. All this ***** only to end up skint and stuck in a traffic jam. And lets not forget that everyone gets in everyone elses way. Motorists are PISSED OFF! Pissed off people are not nice, considerate people.

Not sure if there is anything practical that can be done about this. Maybe stick to mountain biking because it is safer.
OH CACK! I just dropped my d-lock, shattering the JWST primary mirrors! I'll just say I was on the toilet when I heard something smash.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by roubaixtuesday »

SupermanVsSnowman wrote: 2 Nov 2021, 11:40am I used to be a motorists until just over a year ago I can say that it is unbelievably frustrating. As a motorists you get bummed by the government, bummed by your insurance, penalised for moving too fast, penalised for not moving at all and further buttock-raped when your car needs maintenance. All this arsery only to end up skint and stuck in a traffic jam. And lets not forget that everyone gets in everyone elses way. Motorists are PISSED OFF! Pissed off people are not nice, considerate people.

Not sure if there is anything practical that can be done about this. Maybe stick to mountain biking because it is safer.
Victim-bully behaviour is indeed common in motorists, unable to accept responsibility for the damage they cause and instead looking for someone else to blame, and victims to bully.
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SupermanVsSnowman
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by SupermanVsSnowman »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 Nov 2021, 11:56am
SupermanVsSnowman wrote: 2 Nov 2021, 11:40am I used to be a motorists until just over a year ago I can say that it is unbelievably frustrating. As a motorists you get bummed by the government, bummed by your insurance, penalised for moving too fast, penalised for not moving at all and further buttock-raped when your car needs maintenance. All this arsery only to end up skint and stuck in a traffic jam. And lets not forget that everyone gets in everyone elses way. Motorists are PISSED OFF! Pissed off people are not nice, considerate people.

Not sure if there is anything practical that can be done about this. Maybe stick to mountain biking because it is safer.
Victim-bully behaviour is indeed common in motorists, unable to accept responsibility for the damage they cause and instead looking for someone else to blame, and victims to bully.
Unfortunately that is a problem exacerbated by our inept justice system. I was reading just this morning that someone got 24 years for shooting someone else in the face. Attempted murder. What do you think he'd get if he used a car to drive over someone's face causing equally serious injuries? A 2 year suspended sentence most likely.
A vehicle license should have similarly high standards and requirements as a firearms license given how potentially dangerous they can be. It won't solve everything, but it would be far more appropriate and get rid of more of the scum.
OH CACK! I just dropped my d-lock, shattering the JWST primary mirrors! I'll just say I was on the toilet when I heard something smash.
Pete Owens
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Pete Owens »

prestavalve wrote: 30 Oct 2021, 4:14pm No, no, the right way to approach this is to let people who don't ride bicycles tell us why they don't ride bicycles and design a policy around them.
What a mind-numbingly daft idea.
Lets just ask motorists (aka "people who don't ride bicycles") where they want us to ride - the answer of course being "somewhere out of my way". Unfortunately this has been exactly what the authorities have spent the last century doing - and the only way to make sense of the farcilities supposedly designed for our benefit.

But it does give me an idea.
Why don't we get the authorities to change their notional objective to encourage cycling to their actual objective - ie to encourage as much car use as possible. But with one proviso: the actual policies to deliver universal motordrom should be determined by asking us cyclists what we think should be done to "encourage" car use. I could certainly give them a few suggestions.
Postboxer
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Postboxer »

I think Prestavalve meant ask people why they don't ride bicycles, then get their responses, such as there's too much traffic, it's too dangerous, the bad drivers aren't policed, the cycle lanes aren't good enough, they need training, they don't know how to maintain a cycle, there's nowhere secure to park, there are no showers at work, etc. Then address these issues and more people cycle.
ChrisP100
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by ChrisP100 »

Postboxer wrote: 3 Nov 2021, 9:39am I think Prestavalve meant ask people why they don't ride bicycles, then get their responses, such as there's too much traffic, it's too dangerous, the bad drivers aren't policed, the cycle lanes aren't good enough, they need training, they don't know how to maintain a cycle, there's nowhere secure to park, there are no showers at work, etc. Then address these issues and more people cycle.
That's the way I read it too.

I hate to think where we'd be if we let non-cyclists be the 'driving force' (pun intended) behind our current transport infrastructure policy making process?

Oh, wait... :wink:
prestavalve
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by prestavalve »

Pete Owens wrote: 2 Nov 2021, 5:30pm What a mind-numbingly daft idea.
Postboxer wrote: 3 Nov 2021, 9:39am I think Prestavalve meant ...
ChrisP100 wrote: 3 Nov 2021, 3:18pm That's the way I read it too.
I was making fun of a certain cycling organisation who would very likely make it a policy position to ride the opposite way down roads if enough people who don't ride told them it would make them feel safe.
Jamesh
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Re: i'm no longer comfortable on the roads

Post by Jamesh »

Narrow Devon roads are the worst roads to ride on imho.

The drivers drive like Colin McRae rip.

The lanes are narrow and hedges high.

The A road to the north and south are very busy.

Cheers James
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