A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
I re-read this blog-post on the excellent English language German website, 'starosterneradost' whilst replying in another thread. It is an experienced German cyclist's account about riding in Manchester, and lists his bewilderment about the state of British cycling infra-structure and motorists' behaviour towards cyclists; ring any bells here ?!
Title; ' Surviving in Manchester - Musings by a Pampered German Cyclist '.
When I first read this I was nodding my head in agreement at his observations, whilst thinking, yes, why do we put up with it ;
I couldn't come up with a good answer. Of course there is a lot of hard work being done around the country to remedy poor cycling infrastructure by a lot of people. Driver behaviour would seem to be getting worse though, not better, just my opinion from personal observation.
With pictures to illustrate and well worth a read :-
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... n-cyclist/
Edit; A link added to the author's Son's long, and quite detailed article about canal towpath riding in the Birmingham area from the same website. I don't know the area, but it looks to be a very well thought out piece.
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... -by-canal/
Title; ' Surviving in Manchester - Musings by a Pampered German Cyclist '.
When I first read this I was nodding my head in agreement at his observations, whilst thinking, yes, why do we put up with it ;
I couldn't come up with a good answer. Of course there is a lot of hard work being done around the country to remedy poor cycling infrastructure by a lot of people. Driver behaviour would seem to be getting worse though, not better, just my opinion from personal observation.
With pictures to illustrate and well worth a read :-
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... n-cyclist/
Edit; A link added to the author's Son's long, and quite detailed article about canal towpath riding in the Birmingham area from the same website. I don't know the area, but it looks to be a very well thought out piece.
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... -by-canal/
Nu-Fogey
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
Hard to argue with.
I live less than ten miles from the centre of Manchester, and have never considered cycling there. Aside from everything mentioned here, there's no obvious way of getting there without using a motorway and/or awful dual carriageway.
I live less than ten miles from the centre of Manchester, and have never considered cycling there. Aside from everything mentioned here, there's no obvious way of getting there without using a motorway and/or awful dual carriageway.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”
Thanks for posting that.
Jonathan
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”
Thanks for posting that.
Jonathan
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
Indeed that very poem's second line occured to me as I wrote the post !
Just to think;
If Auld Rab had been a cyclist, oh what poems we could have learnt...
Cranked out by besaddled-Rabbie,then recited over bridges, whilst pedalling o'er, owerflowin' burns. With apologies to R.Burns. and Scots folk everywhere.
(Signed) Colin Doggerel.
Nu-Fogey
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
I live in Warrington and my daughter lives in Manchester so I often cycle there - and she does every day.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 7:37am Hard to argue with.
I live less than ten miles from the centre of Manchester, and have never considered cycling there. Aside from everything mentioned here, there's no obvious way of getting there without using a motorway and/or awful dual carriageway.
The key is where possible to choose to avoid roads with dedicated cycle infrastructure - though this is becoming increasingly difficult due to the activities of Chris Boardman.
One piece of information that a German might find helpful is that use of the farcilities is not compulsory in the UK. Just because cycleway funnels cyclists across the path of turning vehicles (a universal problem with segregation) there is no obligation to use it.
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
It is also worth noting that Manchester does not have a monopoly on stupidity:
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
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Last edited by Wilhelmus on 25 Nov 2021, 1:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
He worked it out for himself:Pete Owens wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 10:36am One piece of information that a German might find helpful is that use of the farcilities is not compulsory in the UK. Just because cycleway funnels cyclists across the path of turning vehicles (a universal problem with segregation) there is no obligation to use it.
Do I need to comment on this situation? I mean why bother with designating protected lanes at all? After a very short while I didn´t any more as the surface in the car lanes was much better anyway.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
Yes and what is particularly stupid there is that the road has proper cycleways west of Yitzhak-Rabin-Str. and there is also an alternative tarmac bypass just behind the trees to the right (Bremer Weg) yet it doesn't seem to be signposted when the roadside cycleway evaporates into paint.Pete Owens wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 10:48am It is also worth noting that Manchester does not have a monopoly on stupidity:
Germany isn't all great cycling in my experience, especially in cities. Far more mixed than the Netherlands or Belgium, but better than Italy or France. Its saving grace is that most motorists are kinder than here.
It's probably also worth noting that the Manchester blog post is from 2019 before the latest two rounds of Boardman's Beelines; and the Birmingham one is from 2016 before the A38 Bristol Road cycleway on the old tram line. They are fair observations but may already be outdated in parts.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
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Last edited by Wilhelmus on 25 Nov 2021, 1:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
You see very little in the way of historic buildings in major German. cities. This is not the result of modernist planners - just that there here was nothing much left standing after 1945.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
Can you put a number on it? I think most still stood: even the Reichstagsgebäude was only damaged with enough still there for the iconic "Raising the flag" photo. Many were rebuilt, incorporating whatever ruins were usable, including many religious buildings. Some were left ruined basically as warnings from history, such as the Gedächtniskirche. Some even changed from one to another, most famously in Dresden.Pete Owens wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 3:41pmYou see very little in the way of historic buildings in major German. cities. This is not the result of modernist planners - just that there here was nothing much left standing after 1945.
Was the above meant to suggest that building good roads for cycling should be easy in places flattened? Reconstructed cities and towns can easily become the worst places if motorists shape them to their needs and basically to hell with everyone else under a mocking claim that we can all "share the road" with the fast motorised heavyweight bullies. At least in historic towns, motorways are basically not an option any more because people now resist sacrificing any more history to the car, having learned from past bulldozing projects.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.
Eastern Europe, where several cities were destroyed to a greater extent than even Berlin or Dresden, is a good demonstration of both attitudes in one. Historic city centres were lovingly and painstakingly restored, while in other districts massive multilane dual carriageway roads were constructed. Traffic on most of these did not reach anything like capacity till ten or fifteen years after the demise of the regimes which created them.