A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

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colin54
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A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by colin54 »

I re-read this blog-post on the excellent English language German website, 'starosterneradost' whilst replying in another thread. It is an experienced German cyclist's account about riding in Manchester, and lists his bewilderment about the state of British cycling infra-structure and motorists' behaviour towards cyclists; ring any bells here ?!
Title; ' Surviving in Manchester - Musings by a Pampered German Cyclist '.
When I first read this I was nodding my head in agreement at his observations, whilst thinking, yes, why do we put up with it ;
I couldn't come up with a good answer. Of course there is a lot of hard work being done around the country to remedy poor cycling infrastructure by a lot of people. Driver behaviour would seem to be getting worse though, not better, just my opinion from personal observation.
With pictures to illustrate and well worth a read :-
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... n-cyclist/
Edit; A link added to the author's Son's long, and quite detailed article about canal towpath riding in the Birmingham area from the same website. I don't know the area, but it looks to be a very well thought out piece.
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/2 ... -by-canal/
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Hard to argue with.

I live less than ten miles from the centre of Manchester, and have never considered cycling there. Aside from everything mentioned here, there's no obvious way of getting there without using a motorway and/or awful dual carriageway.
Jdsk
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Jdsk »

“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”

Thanks for posting that.

Jonathan
colin54
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by colin54 »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 8:08am “O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”

Thanks for posting that.

Jonathan
Indeed that very poem's second line occured to me as I wrote the post !
Just to think;
If Auld Rab had been a cyclist, oh what poems we could have learnt...
Cranked out by besaddled-Rabbie,then recited over bridges, whilst pedalling o'er, owerflowin' burns.
P1000948.JPG
With apologies to R.Burns. and Scots folk everywhere.
(Signed) Colin Doggerel.
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Pete Owens
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Pete Owens »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 7:37am Hard to argue with.

I live less than ten miles from the centre of Manchester, and have never considered cycling there. Aside from everything mentioned here, there's no obvious way of getting there without using a motorway and/or awful dual carriageway.
I live in Warrington and my daughter lives in Manchester so I often cycle there - and she does every day.

The key is where possible to choose to avoid roads with dedicated cycle infrastructure - though this is becoming increasingly difficult due to the activities of Chris Boardman.

One piece of information that a German might find helpful is that use of the farcilities is not compulsory in the UK. Just because cycleway funnels cyclists across the path of turning vehicles (a universal problem with segregation) there is no obligation to use it.
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Pete Owens »

It is also worth noting that Manchester does not have a monopoly on stupidity:
Image
Wilhelmus
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Wilhelmus »

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Last edited by Wilhelmus on 25 Nov 2021, 1:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Pete Owens wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 10:36am One piece of information that a German might find helpful is that use of the farcilities is not compulsory in the UK. Just because cycleway funnels cyclists across the path of turning vehicles (a universal problem with segregation) there is no obligation to use it.
He worked it out for himself:
Do I need to comment on this situation? I mean why bother with designating protected lanes at all? After a very short while I didn´t any more as the surface in the car lanes was much better anyway.
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mjr
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by mjr »

Pete Owens wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 10:48am It is also worth noting that Manchester does not have a monopoly on stupidity:
Image
Yes and what is particularly stupid there is that the road has proper cycleways west of Yitzhak-Rabin-Str. and there is also an alternative tarmac bypass just behind the trees to the right (Bremer Weg) yet it doesn't seem to be signposted when the roadside cycleway evaporates into paint.

Germany isn't all great cycling in my experience, especially in cities. Far more mixed than the Netherlands or Belgium, but better than Italy or France. Its saving grace is that most motorists are kinder than here.

It's probably also worth noting that the Manchester blog post is from 2019 before the latest two rounds of Boardman's Beelines; and the Birmingham one is from 2016 before the A38 Bristol Road cycleway on the old tram line. They are fair observations but may already be outdated in parts.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Wilhelmus
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Wilhelmus »

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Last edited by Wilhelmus on 25 Nov 2021, 1:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pete Owens
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Pete Owens »

Wilhelmus wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 3:18pm Another of Germany's saving graces (and the same could be said of other European countries) is that they retain some of their old monuments, rather than sweep them away, like the Euston Arch.
You see very little in the way of historic buildings in major German. cities. This is not the result of modernist planners - just that there here was nothing much left standing after 1945.
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mjr
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by mjr »

Pete Owens wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 3:41pm
Wilhelmus wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 3:18pm Another of Germany's saving graces (and the same could be said of other European countries) is that they retain some of their old monuments, rather than sweep them away, like the Euston Arch.
You see very little in the way of historic buildings in major German. cities. This is not the result of modernist planners - just that there here was nothing much left standing after 1945.
Can you put a number on it? I think most still stood: even the Reichstagsgebäude was only damaged with enough still there for the iconic "Raising the flag" photo. Many were rebuilt, incorporating whatever ruins were usable, including many religious buildings. Some were left ruined basically as warnings from history, such as the Gedächtniskirche. Some even changed from one to another, most famously in Dresden.

Was the above meant to suggest that building good roads for cycling should be easy in places flattened? Reconstructed cities and towns can easily become the worst places if motorists shape them to their needs and basically to hell with everyone else under a mocking claim that we can all "share the road" with the fast motorised heavyweight bullies. At least in historic towns, motorways are basically not an option any more because people now resist sacrificing any more history to the car, having learned from past bulldozing projects.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: A German Cyclist's Observations on Riding on UK (Manchester's) Roads.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Eastern Europe, where several cities were destroyed to a greater extent than even Berlin or Dresden, is a good demonstration of both attitudes in one. Historic city centres were lovingly and painstakingly restored, while in other districts massive multilane dual carriageway roads were constructed. Traffic on most of these did not reach anything like capacity till ten or fifteen years after the demise of the regimes which created them.
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