Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

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Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Jdsk »

661-Pete wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:41am...and furthermore, don't forget Mayer Hillman's assertion regarding 'life years':
Mayer Hillman wrote:"..the health benefits of regular cycling in terms of life years gained through increased longevity, far outweigh the loss of life years in cyclists' deaths."
In fact he cites a ratio of 20:1. We have no reason to suppose that this ratio doesn't still hold good.
Yes, the gains for health far outweigh the losses.

Eg the 2011 Barcelona study:
https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d4521
with discussion of previous studies.

Jonathan
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by mattheus »

Pete Owens wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:18am There is a finite risk of collision associated with riding a kilometre on a country lane then if you increase the number of km ridden (as happened during lockdown) then you would expect to see a proportional increase in casualties.

This is not news; it is advertising by an insurance company. The BBC should really be taking rather more care with their journalism and explain the context of the statistics, rather than simply cut and paste press releases like a local rag. There really is no way to tell from the story whether cycling became safer or more dangerous - or even whether the figure is statistically significant or just the sort of fluctuation you expect to see with series of small numbers.
Completely agree - especially with my bolded bit.
Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Pete Owens »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 10:54am Does anyone know why this story has broken today, please?

"Walking and cycling statistics", 22 September 2021:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... statistics

"Reported road casualties Great Britain, annual report: 2020", 30 September 2021:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... eport-2020
Because "long term trend for cycling to be safer continues for with another small improvement recorded last year" doesn't make for a sensational headline.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 10977
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:48am
Pete Owens wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:18am There is a finite risk of collision associated with riding a kilometre on a country lane then if you increase the number of km ridden (as happened during lockdown) then you would expect to see a proportional increase in casualties.

This is not news; it is advertising by an insurance company. The BBC should really be taking rather more care with their journalism and explain the context of the statistics, rather than simply cut and paste press releases like a local rag. There really is no way to tell from the story whether cycling became safer or more dangerous - or even whether the figure is statistically significant or just the sort of fluctuation you expect to see with series of small numbers.
Completely agree - especially with my bolded bit.
Have you looked at their campaign, partners & materials?

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/r ... ad-safety/
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Jdsk »

Bonefishblues wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:58amHave you looked at their campaign, partners & materials?

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/r ... ad-safety/
Thanks for that.

Jonathan
axel_knutt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by axel_knutt »

"This was despite fewer vehicles using rural routes, and a marked drop in the amount of traffic during the pandemic restrictions."

Or even because of fewer vehicles.

Rural roads are less safe because fatality rate increases with lower traffic density:
Smeed Plain.jpg
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Bonefishblues
Posts: 10977
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Bonefishblues »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:01pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:58amHave you looked at their campaign, partners & materials?

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/r ... ad-safety/
Thanks for that.

Jonathan
My impression, and it is only that, is that the NFU has a deal more integrity in its business model & behaviours than the 'average' insurer. Sadly they didn't give me the job though, so all that candidate research was wasted :lol:
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Jdsk »

axel_knutt wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:03pm "This was despite fewer vehicles using rural routes, and a marked drop in the amount of traffic during the pandemic restrictions."

Or even because of fewer vehicles.

Rural roads are less safe because fatality rate increases with lower traffic density:

Smeed Plain.jpg
I don't think that that graph comes from that linked source...

Jonathan
Pebble
Posts: 1930
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Pebble »

axel_knutt wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:03pm "This was despite fewer vehicles using rural routes, and a marked drop in the amount of traffic during the pandemic restrictions."

Or even because of fewer vehicles.

Rural roads are less safe because fatality rate increases with lower traffic density:

Smeed Plain.jpg
This link sums it up nicely
https://www.teletracnavman.co.uk/resour ... nfographic

I'm in the Scottish Borders, 10th most dangerous roads in the UK - beautifully quiet roads, often only see half a dozen cars in a 30 mile ride, but some really crazy dangerous driving, the quieter the road the faster they driver, the more they play with their phones.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by mattheus »

Bonefishblues wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:04pm
Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:01pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:58amHave you looked at their campaign, partners & materials?

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/r ... ad-safety/
Thanks for that.

Jonathan
My impression, and it is only that, is that the NFU has a deal more integrity in its business model & behaviours than the 'average' insurer. Sadly they didn't give me the job though, so all that candidate research was wasted :lol:
Well that's good to hear.

But it doesn't change my view of the BBC article.
David2504
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 5:29pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by David2504 »

Pebble wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 9:28am
robing wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 9:26am Doesn't surprise me either.
Not just cycling either. I am a runner and run on some rural lanes and have almost been run off the road.
I have a friend who is mainly a runner but does a little cycling, he maintains that cars are much more careful around cyclists than they are around runners - would you agree or disagree with him ?
I do both and I Agree. Cyclists take up more room on the road and travel faster than runners. This results in motorists showing more caution when passing cyclists than runners, though by far still insufficient caution. This is borne out by the report linked in the original post, which states that overall deaths on rural roads increased by two-thirds and deaths of cyclists by 50%.
David2504
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 5:29pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by David2504 »

David2504 wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 1:30pm
Pebble wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 9:28am
robing wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 9:26am Doesn't surprise me either.
Not just cycling either. I am a runner and run on some rural lanes and have almost been run off the road.
I have a friend who is mainly a runner but does a little cycling, he maintains that cars are much more careful around cyclists than they are around runners - would you agree or disagree with him ?
I do both, running and cycling, and I Agree. Cyclists take up more room on the road and travel faster than runners. This results in motorists showing more caution when passing cyclists than runners, though by far still insufficient caution. This is borne out by the report linked in the original post, which states that overall deaths on rural roads increased by two-thirds and deaths of cyclists by 50%.
David2504
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 5:29pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by David2504 »

I’ve noticed an increase in the size and speed of tractors charging around country lanes quite often occupying all the available width of the road. Not sure if this is just me being paranoid or whether it’s actually supported by fact and others’ experiences
geocycle
Posts: 2177
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by geocycle »

Yes it could have said Cyclist deaths rose by 20 despite hundreds of thousands more miles ridden last year during lockdown, or similar. Of course every death is one too many. That said, I’d like to see a 50 mph speed limit on rural roads except where otherwise stated rather than the current 60.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by thirdcrank »

Bonefishblues wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:58am
mattheus wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:48am
Pete Owens wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:18am There is a finite risk of collision associated with riding a kilometre on a country lane then if you increase the number of km ridden (as happened during lockdown) then you would expect to see a proportional increase in casualties.

This is not news; it is advertising by an insurance company. The BBC should really be taking rather more care with their journalism and explain the context of the statistics, rather than simply cut and paste press releases like a local rag. There really is no way to tell from the story whether cycling became safer or more dangerous - or even whether the figure is statistically significant or just the sort of fluctuation you expect to see with series of small numbers.
Completely agree - especially with my bolded bit.
Have you looked at their campaign, partners & materials?

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/campaigns/r ... ad-safety/
You found that link where I had failed. It looks to me a bit like an updated version of the Country Code from the 1950s(?) Unless you take the view that cyclists should be able to do as they like, then at least the advice here is from British Cycling and there's nothing about helmets, (or oilseed rape :wink: )

https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/news-and-st ... -cyclists/
===================================================
I may have missed it, but one thing that seems to be missing is advice to people like tractor drivers. Perhaps the National Farmers' Union thinks farmers are perfect road users
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