Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

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james01
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by james01 »

It should be remembered that during the "Covid period" the profile of the average rural cyclist was quite drastically altered. People were motivated to pull their unused bike from the back of the garage. Families ventured out with young children on temptingly quiet lanes. Their cyclist's sixth sense is just not going to be up the level of someone (like me) who has been using rural roads for decades.

Regarding comments above about the standard of some rural driving, I agree that there has been a woeful decline in recent years. If only drivers would comply with the wonderfully simple rule : "ensure that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear".
Bonefishblues
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Bonefishblues »

thirdcrank wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 2:10pm
I may have missed it, but one thing that seems to be missing is advice to people like tractor drivers. Perhaps the National Farmers' Union thinks farmers are perfect road users
It's a Mutual and I believe completely separate from the National Farmers Union (using only 'NFU' branding)

...a bit like BAA doesn't mean British Airports Authority - but they'd like you to believe it did :D
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mjr
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by mjr »

geocycle wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 1:46pm Yes it could have said Cyclist deaths rose by 20 despite hundreds of thousands more miles ridden last year during lockdown, or similar. Of course every death is one too many. That said, I’d like to see a 50 mph speed limit on rural roads except where otherwise stated rather than the current 60.
40mph please. Then we could have a simple progression: 20mph on minor built up roads, 40 mph on minor rural roads and 60mph on major single carriageways.
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Pete Owens
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Pete Owens »

Yes 40mph would be a much more sensible default.

Ten years ago all A and B roads were individually assessed for speed limits - which is why many (most?) are now subject to specific limits rather than the NSL. This means that the NSL mostly applies to country lanes - where 50 is excessive.
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 3:04pm
geocycle wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 1:46pm Yes it could have said Cyclist deaths rose by 20 despite hundreds of thousands more miles ridden last year during lockdown, or similar. Of course every death is one too many. That said, I’d like to see a 50 mph speed limit on rural roads except where otherwise stated rather than the current 60.
40mph please. Then we could have a simple progression: 20mph on minor built up roads, 40 mph on minor rural roads and 60mph on major single carriageways.
I'd vote for 50 on major single carriageways (a lot of the A140 through Suffolk and increasingly south of Norwich is 50 and it works fine and does not really affect the overall trip time significantly (vs 60)).

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ANTONISH
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by ANTONISH »

IMO juggling with speed limits ( many of which are dangerously high) will achieve nothing without enforcement.
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by peetee »

james01 wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 2:32pm It should be remembered that during the "Covid period" the profile of the average rural cyclist was quite drastically altered. People were motivated to pull their unused bike from the back of the garage. Families ventured out with young children on temptingly quiet lanes. Their cyclist's sixth sense is just not going to be up the level of someone (like me) who has been using rural roads for decades.
A very valid point in my opinion. Add in the very large number of people tempted to cycling because it is ‘on trend’ with their lavish budgets buying high-performance machines, often with electric assist (sometimes unrestricted) and very little skill or experience to deal with adverse road conditions.
I would also take pains to point out that these statistics do not indicate an increase in vehicle-related incidents, merely cycling fatalities, which may well be down to misadventure.
Last edited by peetee on 1 Dec 2021, 10:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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basingstoke123
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by basingstoke123 »

What counts as a rural road? Does this include A roads and dual carriageways outside of urban areas? Or some A roads but not others, perhaps not those part of the trunk network?

But some A roads (e.g. in Devon) are narrower and more more twisty than some unclassified ('yellow') roads (e.g. in Hampshire).

More experienced cyclists will not only be more experienced at handling traffic, but will be more experienced in picking routes that avoid the worst (traffic) roads.

Some drivers on single lane roads, or roads wide enough for two cars but not a car and lorry or tractor, do drive too fast around corners, driving on 'hope'. I learnt to drive on Devon lanes, and you must assume that someone might be coming the other way on every corner.
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mjr
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by mjr »

ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:26pm IMO juggling with speed limits ( many of which are dangerously high) will achieve nothing without enforcement.
Experience suggests it'll achieve a little, but I agree more enforcement would be better.
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Pete Owens
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by Pete Owens »

ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:26pm IMO juggling with speed limits ( many of which are dangerously high) will achieve nothing without enforcement.
Thing is nowadays we do have enforcement, so by and large speed limits are now complied with, which wasn't the case 20 years ago. The roads are significantly safer as a result. Now, people still drive too fast for the conditions, but that is mostly because the limits are set to high, rather than drivers simply ignoring the limits.
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mjr
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by mjr »

Pete Owens wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 12:48pm
ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:26pm IMO juggling with speed limits ( many of which are dangerously high) will achieve nothing without enforcement.
Thing is nowadays we do have enforcement, so by and large speed limits are now complied with, which wasn't the case 20 years ago.
Sorry but that's not so. Half of car drivers currently break the speed limits on motorways and 30mph roads:
"In July to September 2021, 48% of cars in free-flowing conditions exceeded the speed limit on motorways. On National Speed Limit (NSL) single carriageways with a car speed limit of 60 mph, 9% of cars exceeded the speed limit, while on 30 mph roads, 52% of cars exceeded the speed limit."

The annual statistics report shows 87% of car drivers and 90% of motorcyclists exceeding 20mph limits. Enforcement plummetted in 2020, as you might expect, and there hasn't been a 2021 annual report yet to say if it's resumed.

Things have not improved much for decades. As it says: "The annual speed compliance statistics normally show very little variation in the proportion complying with the speed limit from year to year"

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ember-2021
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by thirdcrank »

I don't think there's widespread enforcement of speed limits on rural roads.

I think also the biggy is what's an appropriate speed. basingstoke123 has mentioned poor forward visibility and that's the problem with speed limits. One of my regular examples is Holyrood Lane to the east of Ledsham near Leeds. It narrows to single track without formal passing places, between often overgrown hedges here:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76209 ... 312!8i6656

The centre line was erased, presumably to emphasis there's not room for normal two-way traffic.

Quite recently, a bit further on from my streetview the national limit has been "reduced" to a signed 40mph. Fromthe very limited observation of one return journey to the Chequers pub in Ledsham I think typical speeds have increased so that people who might have driven rather too fast for the circumstances now see 40 mph as officially approved. Let's remember that at 40mph, the closing speed for two vehicles is 80mph. That's on a road where in places the only safe speed - to allow for the distance which can be seen to be clear - is little more than a crawl
simonhill
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by simonhill »

Although disputed by some, I think satnavs have added extra traffic to many rural roads. This leads to people unfamiliar with them, using them as 'faster' cut throughs.

It's not just the huge modern tractors, cars are much bigger now. Not just the 4X4s, but even your average family car is more tank than saloon.

Maybe it's just perception, but I think there has been a definite decline in the safety of the many rural roads I regularly cycle.

One final point. I find close passes by cars coming the other way to often be more dangerous and threatening than overtaking ones. Are these covered by the new Highway Code rules (or guidance)?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by [XAP]Bob »

thirdcrank wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 1:44pm That's on a road where in places the only safe speed - to allow for the distance which can be seen to be clear - is little more than a crawl
Single track that distance is *half* of the distance you can see to be clear... the other half is needed by the road user coming the other way.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Cyclist deaths soar on rural roads in England

Post by al_yrpal »

I ride on rural lanes mostly, very seldom on roads with fast traffic speeds. I am always being told by non cyclists that riding lanes is highly dangerous.

I tell them that that is actually untrue. Cars dont speed on roads with blind bends purely because they dont want a head on. Secondly, as a cyclist you can hear a car approaching from the opposite direction readily and if it looks like the driver wont see you you can take precautions like a tuck in.

Al
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