Pursuing pothole procedures ( Mick F has a bad fall )

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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cranky
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Postby cranky » 2 Aug 2008, 2:30pm

Coffee wrote:Yes, don't complain about your 'collision with pothole' (can't say 'accident' that would mean it was someone's fault, that's un P.C - I was once told this by a policeman after I was hit by a car)
Just get a bike with super wide wheels x 4, suspension, disc brakes, metal cage for protection. Wear leather padded trousers, full face crash helmet, arm pads, gloves.....etc. 6mph speed limit on all cycles! :p :roll:


I'm all for a self inflating airbag that's worn like a cat-suit and blows up like a puffball at the first hint of a collision :lol:
Iain

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james01
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Postby james01 » 2 Aug 2008, 2:45pm

cranky wrote:[
I'm all for a self inflating airbag that's worn like a cat-suit and blows up like a puffball at the first hint of a collision :lol:


Nice idea. But what if you bump into someone at the bar during a pub-stop? :lol:

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cranky
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Postby cranky » 2 Aug 2008, 4:27pm

james01 wrote:
cranky wrote:[
I'm all for a self inflating airbag that's worn like a cat-suit and blows up like a puffball at the first hint of a collision :lol:


Nice idea. But what if you bump into someone at the bar during a pub-stop? :lol:


You ask the barmaid for a straw of course :!:
Iain



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rower40
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Postby rower40 » 2 Aug 2008, 4:45pm

Yes, ma'am, it IS a self-inflating airbag in my cat suit. But nevertheless, I AM pleased to see you...
"Little Green Men Are Everywhere... ...But Mostly On Traffic Lights."

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patricktaylor
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Postby patricktaylor » 2 Aug 2008, 5:08pm

stoatsngroats wrote:Fantastic 'telemetry' of an 'off' - you're a hero to technology... Hope you're improving, and that the healing is rapid... and good luck with the claim...

Ditto to all of that.

Patrick

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gaz
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Postby gaz » 2 Aug 2008, 9:48pm

Sorry to hear your news and see pics of the substantial damage.

I've written off two pairs of wheels and one frame in Kentish potholes and have a little experience of the claims procedure. My close encounters of the pothole kind happened at lower speeds and I was lucky enough to stay on both times. Despite the rims looking similar to yours I was able to ride the 7 miles home on both occassions.

Firstly you've already done some very important things. You have an official medical record of the injuries sustained and, since the police reported it to the council, irrefutable (hopefully) evidence of the existence of the pothole.

In terms of what you are claiming for it's injuries, parts and labour. You'll need at least two quotes from different LBS. It makes sense to get the frame checked over, I hope it's fine but you need to know.

I know you'd prefer to rebuild the wheels yourself, which should be fine, but include your own "skilled labour costs", possibly slightly less than the LBS to make sure you get the job. The CTC will guide you with regard to the compensation amount for your injuries.

You'll be advised not to proceed with any repair until the claim is settled so if you have any spare wheels get them out now.

The claim itself is far from simple. The Local Authority has a statutory duty to maintain the road in a safe condition. However the law recognises that to keep the roads permanently perfect is impossible. As such the duty of care is for "regular inspection" and repair of discovered or reported faults. The regularity of inspection is not set in law.

From memory (a poor source of facts) of my own experience the hole that wrote off the first set of wheels was on a road scheduled for inspections every 18 months. The last inspection had been about 15 months ago and the council were satisfied they had met their obligations. The CTC advised me that I could proceed with a small claim on the basis that the inspection period was not frequent enough, it was a bus route, but with the caveat of possible liability for costs if unsuccesful. I bowed out of the fight as the rebuild was £80 max quote and much cheaper in practice as I did it myself.

The second which took out both wheels and the frame was much simpler. The road had been inspected only two weeks before with no sign of the hole! CTC accepted the council had no case to answer. My replacement bill was much more substantial.

Many years ago a friend wrote off a wheel in another Kentish pothole and quickly took pics. When he put in his claim a site meeting was arranged. The council had repaired the road and the officer present took the "what pothole" approach. He produced the pics and they paid up. Without the pics or independent evidence he would undoubtedly have lost.

Good luck with your claim and I wish you a speedy recovery.
Missing, presumed fed.

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patricktaylor
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Postby patricktaylor » 2 Aug 2008, 11:07pm

gaz, good post.

On two occasions I've broken car wheels in potholes and got nowhere with the local authority. They rely, reasonably, on planned maintenance programmes and planned inspections. But it seems some claims for compensation do succeed, so worth pursuing.

Local authorities are, of course, sensitive to publicity. A well documented accident like Mick's, especially with the injury and bent wheel photos, might well appeal to the local press (if approached soon after the event). The reporters might also be impressed with the technology cyclists use - Garmin, which I know nothing about, but all part of an interesting story perhaps. I can just imagine the headline, eg: "Council pothole defeats high-tech cyclist". They might even throw in Mick's accident-free Grand Tour of Britain.

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Mick F
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Postby Mick F » 3 Aug 2008, 7:30am

Hi guys, thanks for the humour and advice.

The hole in question is at a well-known trouble-spot. For years and years, the highway engineers have been patching up and digging drainage. The trouble is, theres a stream runing alongside the road, and when we have lodsa rain like we've been having, the stream swells and spills onto the road. I was aware of the water, I could see it and I expected it.

What seems to have happened, the excess water has 'blown' the tarmac up.

The bit of road has been under constant work for years, so the council know all about it, and therefore it can't be on a maintenance schedule for that particular spot.

The road was dryish as I approached, and I could see the water from the stream spreading across the road. I've seen it like that many, many times and as there was no other sign of anything amiss, I carried on.

The hole was under water - I didn't see it.

I was asked by the nurse yesterday whether I'd lost my nerve about cycling. I replied that I was aware that I could, but concentrated on the future rather than dwelling on the accident. It still makes me shudder though! So as soon as I can, I'll be back on Bike.

I have learned to be more cautious. I shouldn't have been going that fast. But, hey, so what? Had I been going slower, I'd still have hit the hole coz I never saw it! I'd have had to have doing 10mph to be completely ok!

As for compensation, I don't hold out much hope, but I will be on the phone on Monday morning ......
Mick F. Cornwall

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Beakyboy
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Postby Beakyboy » 3 Aug 2008, 8:22am

Hey Mick, Jez lad, looks sore! 'Pots holes is number 2 on my what is the worst about cycling list' (dogs being number one, see previous post). We have our fair share of giant potholes here too, only a couple of weeks ago i had to take my wheel in to have a dent knocked out due to hitting a pot hole, It was a car wheel!
Hope all works out well soon, but now that you have to buy a new helmet may I suggest the Catlike Whispers I can strongly recommend them....! :lol:

My advice to you: lay on settee, beer at hand and a little bell for room service!
May the wind always be at your rear!

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Mick F
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Postby Mick F » 3 Aug 2008, 10:32am

Beakyboy wrote:My advice to you: lay on settee, beer at hand and a little bell for room service!


Like it! Though I know someone who doesn't!

Here's the most expensive damage. They don't make Centaur pedals any more, lowest is Chorus at £100 or so for the pair. The new rims and spokes will come to about £60.

Image

I say, "Most Expensive" because I'm optimistic about the LH crank arm, and I can't see any damage to the frame other than a scratch on the RH seat-stay - possibly from when I leant it against the low wall after picking my bloody self up off the road.

As it happens, we'r off on our holls on the 17th and drive up to Manchester, we can take Frame to Mercian for them to check it over. I can't see me being fit enough to cycle between now and then so to be off the road will be ok. We can pick it up on our way south a couple of weeks later. I'm optimistic about Frame, so a quick check-up will suffice to give me confidence. If there are any problems, it then becomes the "Most Expensive".
Mick F. Cornwall

PW
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Postby PW » 3 Aug 2008, 12:38pm

If you want to check yourself in the meantime, look for rippled or flaked paint behind the headtube on both the downtube and the crossbar. You can check if it's still in track by running some garden twine from rear dropout around the headtube to the other dropout, then measuring string to seat tube on both sides. Fingers crossed! :wink:
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

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Postby thirdcrank » 3 Aug 2008, 1:32pm

MickF

I missed this post until now (see another thread about my long wait for some new specs from Vision Express.)

Sorry to see the state of you and your bike. Glad it's nothing much more serious. Best wishes for a quick recovery with no loss of cycling confidence. Susan also sends her best wishes.

Cranky

'Accident' is un-PC because it implies something inevitable and unavoidable where nobody is to blame.

When issuing press releases about accidents AKA collisions, it is felt that the phrase, 'A was in collision with B' is completely neutral, while 'A collided with B' is felt to imply that A caused the accident.

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cranky
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Postby cranky » 3 Aug 2008, 1:47pm

thirdcrank wrote:Cranky

'Accident' is un-PC because it implies something inevitable and unavoidable where nobody is to blame.

When issuing press releases about accidents AKA collisions, it is felt that the phrase, 'A was in collision with B' is completely neutral, while 'A collided with B' is felt to imply that A caused the accident.


Excuse me for having a thick day (week/month/year) but where, in this thread, have I used the word "Accident" :?:
Iain



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Beakyboy
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Postby Beakyboy » 3 Aug 2008, 1:48pm

Hey Mick, I can't resist .......... but if you had wheels with less spokes and stronger rims..........................?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry.
May the wind always be at your rear!

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Postby Manx Cat » 3 Aug 2008, 2:34pm

OHG.... Mick I am soooo sorry to read about this. Only just read your post. What a traumatic event. I can only send you and Mrs. Mick lots of healing thoughts.

I hope you manage to get Bike back on the road and get aboard as soon as possible. Id be taking lots of Rescue Remedy in brandy for that lot!

Wow, you were a very very lucky bloke not to have broken something with that 'bit-of-a-do".


All best and hope you ache less soon.


Mary