Ran a Red Light > I'll be hearing from the courts!

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Posts: 1685
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:23pm
Location: Sheffield UK

Re: Post

Postby pigman » 16 Dec 2008, 9:44am

sonic777 wrote: you can't rely on a decent pig

here I am!

Posts: 38
Joined: 15 Nov 2008, 9:33am

Postby sonic777 » 16 Dec 2008, 3:47pm

Point taken!!

lmao :lol:

Posts: 28684
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Dec 2008, 9:23pm

sonic777 wrote: ...
ALWAYS have a name and address memorised to give to the police when you are stopped (for anything) ...

Of course that's a lot better than making one up impromptu:

'OK, Ken, so what's your second name?'

'Tuckyfriedchicken, officer. :oops: '

A jolly good wheeze :lol: - and it reminds me of my distant youth when football hooliganism was all the rage. Both Leeds and Man U had outfits that carried all before them - and good soccer teams as well.

Whenever these two met there was inevitably real trouble which carried on far beyond the ground. Loads of arrests and the system was often close to collapse through sheer weight of numbers. Stiffing (giving false details) was common and and it even reached the stage of people giving the details of somebody else they knew was at the match. Even if the local police did a physical check of the address given, somebody would say that the person lived there and was at the match. When the warrant for non-appearance was executed, the person whose identity had been borrowed would not match the polaroid pic. A jolly good japes. :wink:

Anyway, around 1980 time, after crowd trouble at Old Trafford, some spoilsport :shock: decided that they would have to play an FA Cup Tie at a neutral ground, a big distance from home. They ended up somewhere like Plymouth (although what the West Country had done to deserve that I don't know.) Next bit of fun was when a big group of travelling 'fans' descended on a motorway service area Bristol way, en route to the big match. A couple of young women facing thirty tough guys intent on wrecking the cafeteria early on a Saturday morning - all very funny. Motorway police turn up - initially outnumbered of course - grab one and get his details. Here's the really funny bit: he'd memorised the borrowed name and address so well that when they checked, he was wanted at Leeds for failing to turn up at court last time he used that gag. :lol: :lol: :lol: (It's a bit like remembering passwords.)

Instead of being able to watch thebig match - or at least smash up a pub outside, he was bouncing about on the wooden seats in the Back of the Holbeck van :cry: . Back at Leeds Bridewell ( in those days the appalling cells under the Town Hall) it was much too late for the Saturday court so it's wait till Monday. Bearing in mind that this comedian was wearing his Man U togs, there was the question of his safety in the communal holding cell*. Of course, as any 'insider' knows, being kept separate would risk others jumping to the conclusion that he was a so-called 'nonce'. Time may fly, but not at Leeds Bridewell sitting on the 'long form' on a Sunday, especially if nobody will give you a fag. And he did end up in a cell on his own.

Come Monday morning and it's so predictable to hear the stipendiary magistrate AKA The Stipe, sounding off. 'In addition to the trouble you have caused the police blah, blah, not only were you too much of a coward to face the consequences of your deplorable actions blah, blah, but you risked an innocent man (Innocent? I should coco) losing his liberty for what you had done blah blah. In the meantime, it inevitably turned out that he was wanted in Manchester in his real name and the CID in Zomerzett or wherever decided that they'd like a chat about the service area. So off he went to 18 Gloucester Terrace (postal address of the Big House) for the Three Bears diet, while they decided who could have the next turn.

Things changed a bit in 1984. The spoilsports passed the Police And Criminal Evidence Act (now 'as amended'), which means you can be locked up for anything, including RLJing, if you are suspected of stiffing. :roll: They also set up the Crown Prosecution Service, another bunch of miseries who decided that stiffing amounted to attempting to pervert the course of justice - a common-law misdemeanour - ie an offence thought up by the judges themselves, with unlimited punishment. So anybody wanting to join in the fun would do well to find a solicitor ( a real one that is) and almost certainly a learned friend with fancy dress.

The trouble is, all good things come to an end, and they ration all these pranks. You retire after 30 years.....

* A couple of years ago I was chatting with a Big Issue seller and he told be had had a good hiding on Leeds train station, just for selling the edition with David Beckham on the cover

Posts: 38
Joined: 15 Nov 2008, 9:33am


Postby sonic777 » 17 Dec 2008, 3:53pm

I would try that Ken tuckey thing but the police around here would probably spray mace in your face and say you tried to attack them........


Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 9:21pm

Do not collect a fine proceed to court

Postby montymeadows » 23 Feb 2009, 10:01pm

I got pulled over by a policeman today for going through a red light.

I argued my action as I was at the light between 2 lanes of cars and pavement. There was no green safe area for cycles at this junction so I slowly went just over the crossing path at 2mph and stopped 5ft forward of the cars and awaited lights to turn green. The point I think is I wasn't going through light to save time just to be in a safer position as I had stopped before he shouted at me.

There were no pedestrians on crossing or on pavement about to cross. Policeman (who must have gone through red light aslo on his push bike) shouted to get off the road.

We talked as to what I had done I wasn't rude admitedly not particulary repentant as it was I believe a safer thing to do at that junction than wait.

And whilst he was going through the stuff I did point out cars doing exactly what I had done whilst we were stood there. Also cyclist going wrong way down one way street we were stood on and going over the junction. Still my diversionary tactic of people performing perhaps more heinous acts did no good.

He said I would be issued a summons. I asked if I could not have a fine instead? His reply was he couldn't take cash on the street? (What! I didn't expect him to get his chip and pin machine out either) This seems odd from what I've read on line he could have just issued an on the spot fine. He had already confirmed my name and address with his little hand held gadget.

He then read me my rights to remain silent do you have anything to say etc. I said nothing after then.

I cycle as I drive with common sense and understand getting people for dangerously jumping red lights but most of us are blessed with a little common sense and I believe in being given the right to excercise this and will continue to use my common sense on my bike rather than putting myself at additional risk on the road to stay 100% legal.

In my car I always drive within the law and with keen attention to other road users and cyclists and will continue to do so. If everyone who used the road had same awareness of cyclists I would wait at the lights behind the white line of paint but untill then I will wait at lights in the green cycle area or if there's not one infront of the white line and would encourage other cyclists to do the same.

Does anyone think I'll get a summons or will CPC see it differently?

Posts: 28684
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Postby thirdcrank » 23 Feb 2009, 10:08pm

Isn't this where we came in? :roll:

(Come to think of it, we never did hear how sesme got on. Another month and his case will be statute barred if he has not already heard anything :?: )

User avatar
Mick F
Posts: 47074
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Postby Mick F » 23 Feb 2009, 10:27pm

Although I agree you weren't being dangerous, you were braking the law.

The white line is the line you must not cross until the green light, and only then when it's safe to do so, no matter how slow you cross it.
Mick F. Cornwall

Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 9:21pm

Postby montymeadows » 24 Feb 2009, 12:05pm

I know I broke the law but there is ability for the police to use their judgment a bit on enforcing it. In Cornwall there's not the same level of traffic that cyclists are faced with in central London and the level of people in cars who drive beyond recklessly.

I'm not disputing I should get a fine, just wondered if people think I will or not?

Posts: 5978
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Postby Edwards » 24 Feb 2009, 1:25pm

Monty I think a soliciter might help you. The position you were in would have to use a police phrase "in fear for your safety".
If you had dismounted and walked pushing the bike you would have been legal.
Before anybody jumps in the term "pushing a bicycle" is used in the lighting regs. Being mentioned there it is transferable to other trafic laws. This is because it is recognised and the law should not contradict itself.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

Posts: 11
Joined: 3 Jun 2007, 11:46pm

Postby Tynan » 24 Feb 2009, 1:52pm

surely running a red light doesn;t call for an arrest?
The general arrest conditions are -

1. that -
1. that the name of the relevant person is unknown to, and cannot be readily ascertained by, the constable;
2. that the constable has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name furnished by the relevant person as his name is his real name;
2. that -
1. the relevant person has failed to furnish a satisfactory address for service; or
2. the constable has reasonable grounds for doubting whether an address furnished by the relevant person is a satisfactory address for service;
3. that the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that arrest is necessary to prevent the relevant person—
1. causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
2. suffering physical injury;
3. causing loss of or damage to property;
4. committing an offence against public decency; or
5. causing an unlawful obstruction of the highway;
4. that the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that arrest is necessary to protect a child or other vulnerable person from the relevant person.[3]

Posts: 4354
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 1:22pm

Postby glueman » 24 Feb 2009, 2:33pm

While I'm totally opposed to RLJing in whatever form there are instances where riders and drivers can be caught in advance of a red light for various reasons.
If a light phase is delayed by turning lorries or a car in front gives way to a vehicle from another direction you can be caught out. It's especially prevalent at crossroads where tight turning circles see stop lines set back some yards from the junction.

Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 9:21pm

Postby montymeadows » 24 Feb 2009, 2:34pm

Guess I'll have to wait and see what happens I'll let you know.

Posts: 249
Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 2:46pm

Postby dan_b » 24 Feb 2009, 5:32pm

If everyone who crossed the stop line with signal at red was prosecuted, there would be many fewer cars on our roads. We've all seen the drivers who stop behind the line then edge forwards across it 30 seconds later apparently because they're bored of waiting ...

What you did was illegal, but I'd be as surprised to get done for it as I would to be done for driving at 72mph in a 70 speed limit.

mark a.
Posts: 1358
Joined: 8 Jan 2007, 2:47pm
Location: Surrey

Postby mark a. » 24 Feb 2009, 6:37pm

It illegal to punch someone in the face, but it's not illegal if it's legitimate self defense.

Stopping beyond the line at a red signal is illegal - could it not be if it's for your safety?

Naturally it would depend on how likely it would be for you to have been able to find a safe place behind the line.

I have often found myself moving beyond the red line slightly just to keep myself visible to the driver at the front of the queue. I can think of many occasions when this is sensible and I would do it with no hesitation even if there was a policeman standing nearby.

Posts: 188
Joined: 5 Jan 2009, 12:23pm
Location: South West Inner London

Postby skrx » 24 Feb 2009, 8:04pm

You might find they never follow it up.

A friend of mine was stopped for cycling on the 3m-wide footpath on Putney Bridge at 2am. She refused to pay the fine and was arrested, but they never contacted her.