Cycling with your ipod on

[thegirlfrommarz]

The reason I brought cars into the discussion is because we are (presumably) talking about how safe it is to ride on the road with an iPod, where all the drivers are listening to music too. This makes the comparison relevant I think.

I've tragically given this quite a lot of thought over the last year or so!

Leaving aside drivers who play music at an ear-bleeding volume, who probably can't hear much of anything, most car drivers who play music play it at a reasonable volume, low enough to hear emergency vehicle sirens over it at minimum. The speakers are also quite a long way from their ears, unlike with headphones, so the music doesn't block out other noise quite so much - you can usually hear outside sounds mixed in with the music.

The problem is mostly with in-ear headphones, in my opinion. I have some great headphones for my iPod - noise-blocking in-ear Sennheiser headphones which block out everything around me. They're great on the bus, but I've actually stopped wearing them when I'm walking as I can't hear anything except the music and I feel quite cut-off from the world. Headphones that go over the ears are better at allowing other noise to seep in, so not quite as isolating.

However, I wouldn't want to stop anyone else from wearing headphones - I just don't think it's particularly safe and wouldn't do it myself.

[2Tubs]

The reason I brought cars into the discussion is because we are (presumably) talking about how safe it is to ride on the road with an iPod, where all the drivers are listening to music too. This makes the comparison relevant I think.

I've tragically given this quite a lot of thought over the last year or so!

Leaving aside drivers who play music at an ear-bleeding volume, who probably can't hear much of anything, most car drivers who play music play it at a reasonable volume, low enough to hear emergency vehicle sirens over it at minimum. The speakers are also quite a long way from their ears, unlike with headphones, so the music doesn't block out other noise quite so much - you can usually hear outside sounds mixed in with the music.

The problem is mostly with in-ear headphones, in my opinion. I have some great headphones for my iPod - noise-blocking in-ear Sennheiser headphones which block out everything around me. They're great on the bus, but I've actually stopped wearing them when I'm walking as I can't hear anything except the music and I feel quite cut-off from the world. Headphones that go over the ears are better at allowing other noise to seep in, so not quite as isolating.

However, I wouldn't want to stop anyone else from wearing headphones - I just don't think it's particularly safe and wouldn't do it myself.

Perhaps you have the solution to the problem just there.

Forget headphones, get speakers for your iPod.

When we cycled c2c we did this. It was entirely pleasant.

Gazza

[peter236uk]

I sometimes use an ipod mostly on my commute due to same route and find it motivates me as for music anything from classic to punk. As for wishing to hear a car I see little point in that as someone has said there would be very little you can do at that stage anyway and your eyes should be doing that. I have to say the rear mirror I have on my commuter seems to work only trouble is I can see white van now !! not sure if that is good or bad really.
On days I feel a bit rough or tired loud music can help me to keep going so I enjoy and why not at other times it's nice to listen to the birds etc.

[thegirlfrommarz]

Perhaps you have the solution to the problem just there.

Forget headphones, get speakers for your iPod.

When we cycled c2c we did this. It was entirely pleasant.

Gazza

There's a guy where I used to live (Cambridge) who spends the days cycling around the city centre with a massive ghetto blaster in a plastic bag hanging from his handlebars, blasting out heavy metal. I always admired his initiative - he might not have had a car to drive around the city centre playing his music loudly, but he didn't let that stop him!

This might solve the problems in two of today's threads, actually - this thread and the one about pedestrians stepping out into the street without looking. At least they'd be bound to hear you coming if you're playing Metallica from a shopping bag on your handlebars...

[dan_b]

Or build one like this:

[reohn2]

deafness is a disability and the deaf are aware of it so compensate, all to often "music headed" people can be in another world.
I've had to shout to people wearing ipods on cycle paths when wanting to pass them only to watch them jump out of the skins after a couple of bell rings then two or three shouts increasing in volume until I get through!

Although I agree with your scenario, does this altered comment not also apply: "I've had to shout to deaf people on cycle paths when wanting to pass them only to watch them jump out of the skins after a couple of bell rings then two or three shouts increasing in volume until I get through!"

How do you suppose deaf people compensate for not being able to hear your shouts or bell? Have you ever ridden around a deaf person or is this "compensation power" just conjecture?

Although you may find it frustrating that the iPod wearer has chosen not to hear you, unless you're saying it's unsafe for deaf people I don't see how there can be such a big fuss about wearing headphones.

If someone doesn't look they are vulnerable, whether they are deaf, wearing headphones or perfectly able but just didn't hear you (electric car / quiet bike) coming up behind. In my experience, because wearing headphones removed the ability to *unsafely* rely on my ears I ended up looking a lot more!

Here's an alternative scenario - should car drivers not use their radios because they would then be able to hear cyclists / pedestrians shouting to them? How can we not apply the same arguments here?

The point I was making was that deaf people compensate for their being one sense less than hearing people and as result tend use the other senses to make up for it.
People who use ipods/plug in ear speakers don't.
These are generalisations there will be deaf people who don't and ipod/etc users that do but these will not IMO be the majority.
So a deaf person riding a bike will (generally) be safer than an ipod/etc user because of this.
That is my opinion.
Re car drivers and radios, most car drivers manage this skill quite well,I believe because they are already "removed" from the immediate enviroment by being inside a vehicle so the hearing (and feeling for that matter) sense(s) are dulled (and in some cases removed due to volume of their "sound system" ).
There are exceptions to this generalistion but most manage.
I have not said that ipod/etc users are wrong,just that I wouldn't wear one/them as I find it/them to take away my hearing sense that I find I need for other things whilst cycling ie being in the world not in another false one.
Just another point,on numerous occasions I could have got really close to ipod wearing joggers without them even knowing and the thought has crossed my mind, what if I where an attacker/mugger/rapist etc ?

PS I also think ipods/etc are anti social and people wearing them tend not to pass the time of day.
What I think is more anti social is loud music blaring out of car windows.

[Beakyboy]

I like listening to music as I ride.
There was a post on here a while ago about a single ear phone that channelled both sides of the stereo to one ear. It sounded like a good and safe idea but I can't find the post.

Hey John, do you mean this one?

I like music when I'm cycling as it helps takes the sting out the steep hills as I sing up them. Only using one earpiece (see above) i hear any traffic just fine.

I used to listen to the 'talking books' in the car but had to stop as I found myself getting so engrossed in them that resulted in me not concentrating on my driving. I used to suddenly snap out of it, with a 'how did I get here' thought!

[bigjim]

Interesting. A couple of months ago I had to cycle 60+ miles on busy A roads. I found the traffic noise horrendous. I stopped and fitted my custom made earplugs that I use on my motorbike. Bliss! The noise was reduced to a very muffled sound that did not disturb me and let me concentrate on my riding, but I did know when a vehicle was approaching. Do any of us regularly use earplugs? Even wind noise can be a pain.

Jim

[Mick F]

Pardon?

[bigjim]

Eh?

[meic]

I can hear vehicles which are half a mile away when I am cycling. At the same time I am listening to my personal stereo. It is perfectly possible to have the volume low enough not to interfere with your hearing you just miss bits of your music when there are vehicles around you.
I have done thousands of miles in cars and motorbikes where I couldnt hear much of the outside world, it seems rather perverse that I should not listen to music on the vehicle which is the least dangerous to other people.
Sometimes I can hear the cars music over my own stereo, so what is the point if they can impair my hearing more than my stereo does?
One time when your ears are not good enough is when a vehicle is overtaking you, you have to check if it is alone or if there is another behind it unheard due to the noise of the first vehicle.

I feel that cycling on the country lanes is much safer than motorcycling because you can hear vehicles coming long before you can see them even while enjoying Led Zep's finest pieces.

[peapod]

Most people that are 'deaf' are Hearing Impaired, and can hear ok-ish but have lost some part/s of the frequency spectrum and clarity and/or volume. People like that generally have hearing-aids.

Profoundly Deaf is another matter, and is relatively rare.

Mrs Mick F has hearing-aids in both ears. Hearing problems run in her family. Without them in, she can hear, just, but sometimes miss-hears with comical results! But with her "Ears" in, she can hear better than me.

Basically, I'm saying the same as R2. Music puts people in another world. "Deaf" people are in the real world.

Interesting comments. I'm deaf and wear hearing aids, I'd like to know where you get the idea that without my aids in I can hear ok-ish? Nice to know that with her aids in your wife can hear better than you, however that doesn't apply to everyone. When I was learning to drive my instructor discovered that I couldn't hear the sirens approaching so there goes your super hearing theory.

The ENT dept also said that aids should be removed where's there's moisture, be it from rain or sweat. But then again nice to know that without them I can hear ok-ish anyway.

[johnnyh]

Isn't this a case of volume of music compared to that of ones surroundings?

I have a little ipod shuffle thing that I use at a very low volume - to the extent it is lost in a strong wind or when traffic approaches. I find the music keeps me going while not distracting me form the world around.
I can hold a conversation without turning it off.

Sure if you have it belting out you are going to be "in a bubble" and that isn't safe for any road user/pedestrian, but as a background track to the world around I don't see it as a problem.

But then wouldn't life be boring if we all thought alike.

[EdinburghFixed]

The point I was making was that deaf people compensate for their being one sense less than hearing people and as result tend use the other senses to make up for it.
People who use ipods/plug in ear speakers don't.
These are generalisations there will be deaf people who don't and ipod/etc users that do but these will not IMO be the majority.
So a deaf person riding a bike will (generally) be safer than an ipod/etc user because of this.
That is my opinion.

Ok, and I agree in a sense, that deaf people are likely to look around because they *know* they won't hear anything whereas Joe iPod may not.

However if an iPod user is behaving dangerously it must be because they are still "relying" on their hearing which is impaired by the music, right? But by definition *no cyclist* can be riding safely if they are using their hearing to substitute for looking correctly. In my opinion there is almost no situation where listening can substitute for looking.

So even if these riders did not have an iPod, they would still be riding very dangerously (they *might* hear something and not pull out in front of it! Maybe )

In the final analysis I don't think the iPod contributes much to the question of safe riding.

[pes]

I think its ok most of the time, as long as you keep checking visually.
After all, in a strongish headwind you can't really hear whats happening behind you anyway.
Also can anyone tell the difference in sound level between a vehicle about to pass safely and one that is going to flatten you to the extent that you would take evasive action and dive onto the verge?!
Its not just about music either, I enjoy listening to podcasts on my player.

I'd rather have a fighting chance of anticipating a vehicle from behind than to be taken by surprise.

Even in headwinds I can normally detect a vehicle approaching from the rear. Perhaps my bushy hair acts as a baffle for wind noise and filters it out.

Not much down for us follicley challenged types!