Primary position - maniac undertaking driver!

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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EdinburghFixed
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Postby EdinburghFixed » 31 Oct 2008, 4:09pm

dmiller wrote:I dont know about insurance claims - might be worth something there. I had video footage of a taxi driver threating to kill me at a set of lights and then driving at me.

The police said they couldnt do anything as the video could be faked... seriously.


I did a bit of googling and found this story about a helmet camera crash and subsequent claim (worth checking out for the crash footage alone).

I've also thought for a while that having one might help defuse situations rather than just clean up afterwards.

thirdcrank
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Postby thirdcrank » 31 Oct 2008, 4:27pm

doobyduck wrote:Even if the Police cant charge they will still visit the driver and make him aware that they are concerned about his driving behaviour so I would still report it.

If you are worried about evidence you can contact the Council as Edinburgh has a huge number of CCTV cameras that you can request they have a look at if you know the location, date and time.

cheers

Stuart


I don't really know anything about the law in Scotland but I'll assume that there are many aspects the same as down here; I think you can take it for granted that the other party has the right to have his say and although it may contain all the same ingredients, there may just be a slight change of emphasis when seen from that other viewpoint. Of course, the council's CCTV will have another, independent viewpoint if it is installed there.

Do let us know how you get on - it will be useful for future reference.

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EdinburghFixed
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Postby EdinburghFixed » 31 Oct 2008, 4:44pm

I'm undecided as to whether I should report - I might have mentioned on here before that I was knocked off (right hook) by a hit-and-run driver this summer and despite two other drivers witnessing, nothing seems to have come of it.

I also had that random bus run-in, been repeatedly hassled by a driver (who also undertook me in a 4-way junction, clearly my positioning needs work!) and a couple of taxi clashes... I attract carnage!

Think I might go camera shopping :)

kwackers
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Postby kwackers » 31 Oct 2008, 4:48pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:I'm undecided as to whether I should report - I might have mentioned on here before that I was knocked off (right hook) by a hit-and-run driver this summer and despite two other drivers witnessing, nothing seems to have come of it.

I also had that random bus run-in, and a couple of taxi clashes... seems I attract carnage!

Think I might go camera shopping :)


I've been riding with a camera for some time now - and as you'd expect hardly anything worthy of note as happened. (Just the odd RLJ'ing motorist etc).

Interestingly though I do think they raise the standard of one's cycling - since you can hardly complain about someone else's driving if footage a few seconds earlier doesn't exactly put one in good light...

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EdinburghFixed
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Postby EdinburghFixed » 31 Oct 2008, 4:48pm

thirdcrank wrote:I think you can take it for granted that the other party has the right to have his say and although it may contain all the same ingredients, there may just be a slight change of emphasis when seen from that other viewpoint.


He certainly did. When I caught him at the lights he blamed me for nearly getting myself killed, riding side by side so that he had to weave between us. I tried to point out that he had it back to front... :roll:

Really I should train my girlfriend to brake when someone sounds off behind us, so that inviting gap on my left didn't open up!

kwackers
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Postby kwackers » 31 Oct 2008, 4:50pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think you can take it for granted that the other party has the right to have his say and although it may contain all the same ingredients, there may just be a slight change of emphasis when seen from that other viewpoint.


He certainly did. When I caught him at the lights he blamed me for nearly getting myself killed, riding side by side so that he had to weave between us. I tried to point out that he had it back to front... :roll:


Once camera equipped, remember to point at the camera and ask if they'd got anything they'd like to add in their defence for when you show the footage to the police. :wink:

thirdcrank
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Postby thirdcrank » 31 Oct 2008, 4:55pm

Just to broaden the debate, I've remarked on here a couple of times how some commercial drivers think the words 'I'm delivering' are a sort of magic spell. Obviously, I'm only speaking generally here and not commenting on this incident but it seems that 'The primary riding position' is assuming similar properties in some quarters.

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EdinburghFixed
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Postby EdinburghFixed » 31 Oct 2008, 8:23pm

I think that's a great point. It's easy to assume that by taking the lane, drivers will hold back (even if it's only by necessity).

But ultimately each time we move out to primary position, it should be considered that it might provoke a road-rage attack. You are inevitably holding someone up who might be able to squeeze past if you hugged the kerb instead (which probably 90% of the other cyclists they encounter do).

It's hard to know what to do though. I'm sure my riding is far from perfect, but I try to control following traffic as well as I can around our daily trouble spots. Generally speaking it works ok but there are regular altercations (at least once a month I would welcome a passing policeman!) which either means I'm failing somehow, or succeeding too well :?

My girlfriend is definitely getting put off as time goes by. It seems very hard to manage traffic around both of us at the same time, especially as she isn't so aggressive on junctions and lights. Maybe we (or she) will need to switch to car-share. :(

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tonym1959
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Re: Primary position - maniac undertaking driver!

Postby tonym1959 » 31 Oct 2008, 11:19pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:I seem to
PS Do you think he started driving randomly to avoid me? I can't imagine this is his normal route!!.... (also, 2.5 miles! better than I thought)

PPS If for some reason you find yourself near a black Volvo XC90 2.4D automatic, reg. 1RLA - watch out! Also realised how silly it is for bad drivers to have custom plates.


Seems a very wandering route for such an important chap. Can someone remind us of that web site where one can plug in someones plate number to see if the car is insured please? Some of these custom plates can be "bought off the shelf" - this one may be illegal.

kwackers
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Postby kwackers » 1 Nov 2008, 10:37am

EdinburghFixed wrote:I think that's a great point. It's easy to assume that by taking the lane, drivers will hold back (even if it's only by necessity).

But ultimately each time we move out to primary position, it should be considered that it might provoke a road-rage attack. You are inevitably holding someone up who might be able to squeeze past if you hugged the kerb instead (which probably 90% of the other cyclists they encounter do).

It's hard to know what to do though. I'm sure my riding is far from perfect, but I try to control following traffic as well as I can around our daily trouble spots. Generally speaking it works ok but there are regular altercations (at least once a month I would welcome a passing policeman!) which either means I'm failing somehow, or succeeding too well :?

My girlfriend is definitely getting put off as time goes by. It seems very hard to manage traffic around both of us at the same time, especially as she isn't so aggressive on junctions and lights. Maybe we (or she) will need to switch to car-share. :(



Our road network sadly only supports confident cyclists. To be able to cycle safely through a town centre on rush hour you need to be confident, moderately aggressive and with a reasonable turn of speed.
Which is probably a high percentage of people who post on these forums.

If you're a 3-5mph tootler, lack confidence, are a bit 'infirm' or too submissive then it's a sad, harsh place to be.

The only real solution is to get car drivers to drive properly with due respect for all road users but this is unlikely to happen any time soon.
So in the meantime we'll have to put up with badly placed cycle lanes and people feeling safer on pavements.

kwackers
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Re: Primary position - maniac undertaking driver!

Postby kwackers » 1 Nov 2008, 10:42am

tonym1959 wrote:Seems a very wandering route for such an important chap. Can someone remind us of that web site where one can plug in someones plate number to see if the car is insured please? Some of these custom plates can be "bought off the shelf" - this one may be illegal.


http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx

Looks like he's insured though...

mac111051
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Postby mac111051 » 1 Nov 2008, 4:39pm

I think the problem is motorists don,t understand what we are doing riding in the primary position, when it,s explained to them there reaction is you will get yourself killed , but when they think about it, most have to agree with what I say , with all this money the goverment is putting into cycling how much would a TV advert cost to explain why we ride like this

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bikely-challenged
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Postby bikely-challenged » 1 Nov 2008, 5:59pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:
...I try to control following traffic as well as I can around our daily trouble spots. Generally speaking it works ok but there are regular altercations (at least once a month I would welcome a passing policeman!) which either means I'm failing somehow, or succeeding too well :?


You do seem to have quite a few incidents. (Having said that, I have no idea how often these things happen to other commuters. Perhaps other commuters could comment? The Dr. from Glasgow who posts his videos of road rage on youtube seems to have quite a few also.)

I was struck by the words "try to control following traffic". Not trying to offend, but I wonder if it's a bit unrealistic to control following drivers from a bicycle?

There are motorists who will not only obey the speed limit, but position their car in such a way that no other motorist can overtake them and thus exceed the limit. You could argue that these drivers are morally and legally above reproach, but that doesn't stop them becoming involved in road rage incidents with any nutjobs and psychos whose progress they impede.
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DISCLAIMER: The above constitutes my personal opinion only on any given subject. Other opinions are available.

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bikely-challenged
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Postby bikely-challenged » 1 Nov 2008, 6:02pm

mac111051 wrote:I think the problem is motorists don,t understand what we are doing riding in the primary position, when it,s explained to them there reaction is you will get yourself killed , but when they think about it, most have to agree with what I say , with all this money the goverment is putting into cycling how much would a TV advert cost to explain why we ride like this


Agree with this. They have public information films about watching out for motorbikes, but nothing for cyclists. You're right, most drivers don't know what primary position is, or have even heard of it. They seem to think if you're not in the gutter you're cycling dangerously.
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DISCLAIMER: The above constitutes my personal opinion only on any given subject. Other opinions are available.

AlanD
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Postby AlanD » 1 Nov 2008, 6:03pm

May I respectfully suggest that if one cyclist writes to Top Gear, they will probably be dismissed. If a lot of cyclists write to put their case, they might just sit up and pay attention. :wink:

So, how about it?

Have a good weekend.
Alan