stooping to their level, part 2...

[Hector's House]

Whilst cycling down Victoria Road/Possilpark Road going into town yesterday, I passed a cyclist at least 4 times: at every junction he passed me. How so? He went through the red lights... yes, he was a mid 20's"no helmet, no lights, no nothing" genre of cyclist (if i see a cyclist with no helmet, my view on him is affected by whatever else he or she is wearing and their age).

He was going pretty slowly. Didn't have too much difficulty catching him, even though I had bar bag and one pannier full of stuff. I suppose I must have looked holier than thou, as I was in my leg warmers/shorts/cycling jacket/cycling gloves/helmet/goggles combo.

At the second to last junction, which allows only for one car and one bike with room to sit side-by-side, there was a car (suprising in itself - that stretch of road is usually devoid of them). To make a point to this cyclist, I stopped next to said car as it was a red light. As he squeezed by he muttered something that suggested he was unhappy with my move. I did not hear what he said.


Should I have:

a) on overtaking him on the next piece of road get to his pace and ask politely "sorry old chap, what was it you said back there?"
b) On overtaking him, unclipped my left foot and kicked him hard into the gutter?
c) ignored him?


as it happened, I chose option c. Option b wasn't an option until I wrote this post, and i didn't quite have the energy and nerve to go for option a - he did look more than displeased!

[Paul Power]

What you suggest in b, I find highly offensive...

Paul

[james01]

I had ....and one pannier full of stuff. I suppose I must have looked holier than thou, !

You can't be holier than thou with only one pannier

Seriously: these guys give us a bad name, but sadly it's pretty pointless trying to convert them.

[Hector's House]

Maybe I over-emphasised the fact that he was running lights. I know it's not my place to "convert" anyone to be a safe cyclist... All i did was used an oppurtunity to try and make him stop at a red!

It's more the reaction that he gave me that I'm concerned about!

James, that was the most prime example of selective quoting I have ever seen!

[james01]

I know it's not my place to "convert" anyone to be a safe cyclist... All i did was used an oppurtunity to try and make him stop at a red!

:

When you think about it, if a motorist were flagrantly jumping red lights, other drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists would react angrily, and quite rightly, by horn-blowing, shouting etc . So maybe we should be trying to convert these guys. Personally, I'm afraid I've learned to avoid confrontation where possible, you never know where it's going to take you

[Gisen]

When you say "red lights" do you mean an actual junction where traffic could be crossing at right angles to your/ his direction of movement or were they something like going across the top bar of a T junction left to right i.e. without traffic crossing your paths? (The type where a forward thinking council might put a cycle lane to the left of the traffic lights so cycles can continue)?

[pioneer]

Hector, I agree, this sort of thing is damned annoying.But,just like the other thread currently running about the lad in dark clothes,no lights etc, it is actually somebody's job to jump' on this sort of thing. i.e. our Police force/service. Yes, it gives the everyday law- abiding cyclists a bad name but sometimes,all that will happen is that we are left feeling angry at the reaction of these fools and they just carry on regardless anyway.Quite oblivious (uncaring?)to the risk they're taking and any risk/danger to anybody else.

Some would argue of course (even some members on this forum which I find ironic),that the Police have "far more important" things to do than educate and enforce on, a relatively small section of the road users community who blatantly disregard all rules and indeed, common sense.
Well, IT IS THIER JOB as is catching motorists chatting on thier mobiles, and just look how successful that is!

So, annoying though this is, until the Police and "the authorities" start to take road safety (of all transport groups), seriously,there is in reality not a lot we can do.

[adinigel]

What you suggest in b, I find highly offensive...

Paul

Not sure how, but you may be interested to see that one person has actually voted for option b

I think you were right to ignore him Hector. WOuld have been interesting to have found out what he actually said though

Nigel

[ianr1950]

It's very interesting to note that the lack of a helmet also affects your judgement of someone.

Also lack of lights but was it dark at the time of this incident? If not what difference does it make.

[Hector's House]

It's very interesting to note that the lack of a helmet also affects your judgement of someone.

Also lack of lights but was it dark at the time of this incident? If not what difference does it make.

those are genearlities. Here's a basic mathematical forumala i use in my split second judgement of cyclists:

young + no helmet + no lights + cusual everyday clothes = more times than not a cyclist who doesn't care for safety and has a bad attitude on the roads (cycling on pavements where this is not permitted, running red lights).

young + no helmet + lights + a bit of cycling wear = cyclist who probably does care about the highway code! no better or worse than young/helmet/lights/cycling wear.

older + no helmet =... this person probably has all the correct equipment interms of seeing/being seen - they have the money and the wisdom!


So you see, someone not wearing a helmet in isolation doesn't affect me. Someone not having lights doesn't always affect me - certainly at 3pm i wasn't looking for lights on his bike!
Yes, these are generalisations, and I don't like the fact that I judge a fellow cyclist in this way, because there are some darn fine exceptions (can think of at least two guys who go on 60kers in jeans). But i do. And that's how i do it.





Gisen, these were proper junctions with traffic coming from the left and right.



In my experience... Glasgow is the opposite to every other town where I've cycled. The majority of cyclists i've seen are safe, high-code abiding cyclists, whilst the majority of car users are absolute plonkers. I thought edinburgh taxis were bad for creeping forward at junction (this REALLY annoys me - what IS the point?) haven't seen so many buses do the same! Or indeed, i hadn't seen a public bus creep forward at a junction before i got to Glasgow!

[meic]

Hector is making a connection between "real cyclists"( who will have an interest in the cycling itself rather than just using it to get somewhere) and helmet use.
It is true that anyone wearing a helmet has made at least the effort of aquiring and wearing a helmet, which shows some small amount of attention to the act of cycling.
It is incorrect to reverse the logic and say that not wearing a helmet shows anything at all about an individual's cycling experience. However it does have a statistical connection.

[thegirlfrommarz]

You probably did the right thing in ignoring him, but I've voted for (a) as I find this really annoying.

I'm quite a fast cyclist - well, probably not compared to anyone on this board, but compared to a lot of other cyclists on the road - and I hate going to all the trouble of overtaking someone (not easy on some of the roads, where there's a lot of traffic), only to have them pass me by jumping a red light so I have to do the whole thing again. I have a really nice downhill on my way to work that is the most fun part of my journey and if I have to brake all the way down it because I've been overtaken by someone who jumped a red light and then is too scared to go at speed... well, grrr!

[thirdcrank]

You probably did the right thing in ignoring him, but I've voted for (a) as I find this really annoying.

I'm quite a fast cyclist - well, probably not compared to anyone on this board, but compared to a lot of other cyclists on the road - and I hate going to all the trouble of overtaking someone (not easy on some of the roads, where there's a lot of traffic), only to have them pass me by jumping a red light so I have to do the whole thing again. I have a really nice downhill on my way to work that is the most fun part of my journey and if I have to brake all the way down it because I've been overtaken by someone who jumped a red light and then is too scared to go at speed... well, grrr!

I've seen all sorts of pro's and cons for RLJing - and I thought I'd seen them all.

[thegirlfrommarz]

I've seen all sorts of pro's and cons for RLJing - and I thought I'd seen them all.

Hmmm, suspect I haven't been clear here. What I mean is "I find it annoying to have to overtake the same person several times in one trip because I'm stopping at the lights and they aren't"? Surely that one's come up before?!

[dan_b]

Hmm. It's not an argument I particularly like. I have before now heard "Don't use the ASLs because I find it annoying having to overtake you in my car repeatedly when you've overtaken me by filtering past when I'm stuck in a queue", and I possibly have more sympathy with that POV, because it's even harder to overtake safely in a wider vehicle than it is on a bicycle.