Please don't ride in the gutter!

EdinburghFixed · Post by **EdinburghFixed** » 29 Jan 2009, 11:22pm

We had to take the car to work today. On the way home I really struggled behind what appeared to all intents to be the 'textbook' cycle commuter.

Good lights, fluro suit, mirror, the works (he even had tights on which is usually the sign of a serious rider around here).

We were going up a shallow hill in a 20 zone, at about 10mph and he was really asking for trouble, riding about a foot away from the parked cars to make room for me, and ducking into every gap between parked cars as if 2 or 3 seconds is enough time to get past.

The road is barely wide enough for a car to overtake without any oncoming traffic, never mind at rush hour.

Of course I knew better than to take him up on his offer of a dangerous liaison, but that's exactly what he was doing - inviting me to put him in danger by making it look like he wanted me to pass, and that there was somehow enough room (there wasn't really).

It was very hard to prevent the autopilot kicking in and just trying to pass him (like when the driver in front of you indicates left, pulls over and slows to 40mph - you "know" that it's overtaking time).

What it got me thinking, however, is that if it is so hard for a bitter and twisted cycle commuter to drive safely behind, then what must it be like for a "normal" driver?

I felt like one of these hapless bus drivers who is put on a cyclist exchange and realises how terrifying it is to ride down his usual 'beat' - only in reverse! A total reinforcement of primary/secondary riding for both of us in the car...

patricktaylor · Post by **patricktaylor** » 29 Jan 2009, 11:39pm

I agree. Avoid the gutter in traffic. Holding it up by cycling a car-door-width plus one foot away from parked cars has never brought me so much as a toot from anyone. I can hear the roar of the bus a few feet behind and imagine the driver's thoughts, but they tend to respect a person's effort. I think body language helps. Look as if you know what you're doing and appear to work hard to get clear.

kwackers · Post by **kwackers** » 30 Jan 2009, 9:10am

I would say the vast majority of cyclists I see on the road are way too close to the kerb.

If a car can squeeze past (or think they can) they'll do it, cycling out from the kerb forces them to make a concious decision about their manouver.

pigman · Post by **pigman** » 30 Jan 2009, 9:25am

patricktaylor wrote: I think body language helps. Look as if you know what you're doing and appear to work hard to get clear.

I dont think this can be over emphasised. If the driver has confidence in you and feels that youre doing your best to mitigate his inconvenience, most will tolerate you. If he feels youre a wobbler or that youre dawdling cos you have a right to, he'll get annoyed.

hubgearfreak · Post by **hubgearfreak** » 30 Jan 2009, 10:58am

on weds, i was cycling a doors width away from a line of parked cars, when a tracksuited & baseball-capped fellow on a BSO came zooming past me and suggested :

"get in you clown"

clown wasn't the word, but the first letter's the same :shock:

after this manoeuvre, he then proceeded to skim past the parked cars with inches to spare.....with me (ashamedly) wishing a door to open

hubgearfreak · Post by **hubgearfreak** » 30 Jan 2009, 10:59am

pigman wrote: If the driver has confidence in you and feels that youre doing your best to mitigate his inconvenience, most will tolerate you..

most will, it's true, but it's the other 10% that are the real danger

pigman · Post by **pigman** » 30 Jan 2009, 11:07am

hubgearfreak wrote:a BSO

??

hubgearfreak · Post by **hubgearfreak** » 30 Jan 2009, 11:10am

pigman wrote:a BSO??

it's a bike shaped object. £99 for two from the back of the mail on sunday.
plastic brake levers and arms, unchromed steel seatpost, handlebars and cranks. but they do have the all important 48 gears and F&R suspension

dan_b · Post by **dan_b** » 30 Jan 2009, 11:16am

hubgearfreak wrote:on weds, i was cycling a doors width away from a line of parked cars, when a tracksuited & baseball-capped fellow on a BSO came zooming past me and suggested :

"get in you clown"

Did you drop him?

Willpower · Post by **Willpower** » 30 Jan 2009, 11:27am

In my area there's one cycle lane that is in the door zone of a line of parked cars (brilliant design - actually it's there for traffic calming reasons apparently :evil:

)
One day I was going along there, not in the lane partly because it's dangerous and partly because I happened to be overtaking another bike at the time.

I had verbals from a motorcyclist of all people from this! All because I was holding people up from getting to the back of the queue of traffic ahead as soon as possible. :roll:

2Tubs · Post by **2Tubs** » 30 Jan 2009, 12:06pm

A few weeks ago I saw a guy on a cycle turing right on a traffic island.

All was well as he moved tot he right lane but then he hugged the far side curb allowing cars to shoot up his inside.

Once on the island he did the same, hugged the kerb of the island.

I should really go back and see if he's stil there, cycling around and around with cars cutting off his escape route as they shoot up his inside.

Gazza

frank9755 · Post by **frank9755** » 30 Jan 2009, 12:11pm

It is amazing how many people really think that there is a law that says cyclists should ride in the gutter.

I get the odd piece of advice from passing motorists to that effect, and I regularly see people who are clearly experienced cyclists trying to stay tight to the kerb. I also keep reading posts on here sometimes and on other forums frequently where the cyclist has implicitly assumed that his place is the gutter.

EdinburghFixed · Post by **EdinburghFixed** » 30 Jan 2009, 12:44pm

Cycle lanes have to be partly responsible for that.

We ride a few miles on the A90 dual carriageway into Edinburgh, never have any problems, until the cycle lane appears and we have to move in towards the gutter or be blasted by outraged drivers (who from their point of view, have a point).

Now we start to get dodgy passes more often, drivers trying to squeeze past while they are being overtaken by someone in the second lane, etc. and *far* more "overtake and turn left" incidents.

If there were no cycle lanes, it would be a lot safer *in practice*, although non-cyclists and rank novices would probably feel more exposed (and of course, they are the people we need to turn into "real" cyclists).

There is an interesting video on YouTube about bike commuting in the US, if for no other reason than it demonstrates how much danger you will be exposed to if you allow motorists to ignore you (and ultimately, a good demonstration of why segregationalist cycling provision is an extremely bad idea for everyone but speeding motorists).

Willpower · Post by **Willpower** » 30 Jan 2009, 12:49pm

The cycle lanes in Carlisle are the gutter - quite litterally. I've never seen ssuch narrow ones.

patricktaylor · Post by **patricktaylor** » 30 Jan 2009, 1:57pm

The way I see it is that in urban areas the gutter really is the gutter: the strip about a foot wide with painted lines that runs between the road gullies and carries surface water to them and which is often covered with debris, broken glass, stones, etc and which is therefore cleaned from time to time by the Highway Authority. It is not meant to be cycled/driven on/in.