Drakes Trail (part of the Devon C2C - NCN27)

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I see Mick F's point of view about the bridge, I have not used it yet but did the plym trail etc all the way from Oakhampton, two years ago or maybe last year.
I like the off road trails but dont use balarina's boots
A-B fast its always roads.
There is a bridge which cost a similar or even more obscene amout over the M5 or A38 near Exeter, when a radio presenter interviewed the Council rep he asked where does it go several times but rep refused to answer, as at that time it went nowhere, and would not say either where it was meant to go

[DevonDamo]

Mick - you obviously know the local roads and have made an informed choice based on your requirements, so I'm not questioning your choice of the A386. The reason I'm not letting this go is that I don't want anyone reading this thread to come away with the impression that the off-road route between Plymouth and Tavistock is anything other than excellent.

Not really in agreement with you.
The surface from Yelverton all the way to the Whitchurch road is "tarmac" for much of the route. Trouble is, it isn't tarmac, but tarmac with fine gravel on top. It isn't tarmac like a road.

All I stated was that between the Gem Bridge and Yelverton, there's only a short gravelled stretch on the bridge itself and for a few hundred yards beyond. The rest is gravel-free tarmac. That's definitely the case. As for the rest of the Drake's trail (i.e from the Gem Bridge to Tavistock) I don't recall a gravel surface, but I've only done it twice, so I'll take your word on that. However, based on the fact that I don't recall any gravel between the Gem bridge and Tavistock, I can't imagine the surface was that bad. The bit that connects Clearbrook to Yelverton is definitely non-tarmac, but could be avoided using a short on-road detour.

How can anyone commute using Drake's Trail from Tavistock if they work in Plymouth? How far is it? How long would it take? Sorry, but the A386 road is smooth, easy going and fast. Tavistock to Plymouth city centre using the A386 takes 52minutes. (Just checked on my rides diary) 13.6miles.

I've never needed to use it for commuting, but if I did, I'd put up with whatever the time penalty was in order to be off the road. Personal preference.

I didn't go wrong by going via Saltram, I started off at Laira Bridge as I intended.

There are two marked cycle routes starting from the Laira bridge. You chose the longer one, which is mainly stretches of gravel, unmade ground and has one steepish hill on mud/gravel through Saltram. The shorter route is traffic-free, flat and tarmac all the way. I enjoy the Saltram route but, based on your comments in the previous thread, it was unarguably the wrong route for you.

The Gem Bridge cost an obscene amount of money IMHO.

Agreed. Could probably have done much more for local cycling routes with that money. Too late now.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I always prefer the off road route, as its relaxing (NO FLIPPING TRAFFIC) I have spent most of my cycling over the years on the tarmac, but would be happy never to hit the road again if off road routes allowed.
Fact is my tourer is equipped with 37 mm tyres so tracks, rocks and all no problemo.
"Roadies" could do far worse if they get some heavier tyres / spare wheels or even a skip MTB from your local tip / recycling centre and get the experience and freedom the off road life.
Especially if your a plodding old roadie who does not really get the benefit of hard 23mm close clearance go faster slicks, at grandad pace

[Mick F]

All I stated was that between the Gem Bridge and Yelverton, there's only a short gravelled stretch on the bridge itself and for a few hundred yards beyond. The rest is gravel-free tarmac. That's definitely the case.

It wasn't the case when I rode it earlier this year - or at least it's what I saw. From what I can remember, the bit near Leg o Mutton across the moor was tarmac as it weaves and bends about, but when it starts the long downhill towards Horrabridge through the trees is where the surface has fine gravel on top of the tarmac.

I have to get ready for the Poppy Appeal so I'm curtailing my cycling for the next couple of days. Lots of collecting boxes to mark up and poppy boxes to fill. However, as soon as I can, I'll ride up the A386 to Yelverton roundabout and follow the trail back to the Whitchurch road. I'll do it that way round because it's easier.

I'm glad we both agree that it's a good route, but I maintain it's not a good route for getting to Plymouth unless you fancy a leisurely ride for the sake of it. Why anyone would want a leisurely ride into Plymouth, I don't know!

Friday, weather permitting, I'm off into Bandit Country and cycling up to North Devon and across to Bude via Hatherleigh and Holsworthy, but if I get the chance, I'll survey the Drake's Trail ASAP. I'll only be away a couple of hours or less as it takes me 45mins from Gunnislake to Yelverton on the road.

Here's the route under discussion. It drops from Yelverton/Leg o Mutton down to Gem Bridge, then up through Grenofen Tunnel to the Whitchurch road just off the A386 south of Tavistock.
http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course. ... rse=620779

Hopefully, I'll do it again in the next few days.

[Mick F]

........... between the Gem Bridge and Yelverton, there's only a short gravelled stretch on the bridge itself and for a few hundred yards beyond. The rest is gravel-free tarmac. That's definitely the case. As for the rest of the Drake's trail (i.e from the Gem Bridge to Tavistock) I don't recall a gravel surface, but I've only done it twice, so I'll take your word on that. However, based on the fact that I don't recall any gravel between the Gem bridge and Tavistock, I can't imagine the surface was that bad.

I did it this afternoon.

I can confirm without doubt that from a few hundred yards from Yelverton/Leg o Mutton the tarmac is covered with fine gravel. It is like that from there right down to where the trail crosses the Buckland Monachoum road into Horrabridge Station Road.

After the old station, you go through a gate, and it's the same surface all the way except for a wooden bridge or two and the wooden planking after Gem Bridge. The surface on Gem Bridge is the same as the surface all the way along.

The tarmac surface is good and smooth at the Yelverton end, but as you progress towards Tavistock it gets rougher and rougher. It was a delight to pop out at the end onto real roads.

At the Yelverton end, the fine gravel has been washed away in places, but further on it's all there and sometimes in thick patches. I wouldn't want to do an emergency stop on there.

The trail was filled with walkers. I saw four or five groups of two or three, and there was a large group of seven or eight too. I never saw a cyclist. Loads of dog poo and piles of horse poo too, plus a huge build-up of autumn leaves. I do worry about the leaves because they will build up over the winters and instead of tarmac/fine gravel, we will have soil. This is the first winter, and I doubt anyone is going to sweep up the leaves.

Here's a few photographs.

This is a pile of the fine gravel that has been washed off near Yelverton.

This is further along on the trail where the gravel has pooled into thick patches.

Nice autumn sunshine and wet soggy leaves.


Granted, I'm being picky really and apologies for that, but as far as I'm concerned it's not a good route to get between Tavistock and Yelverton on a bike unless you fancy a bit of fun with your young kids or want to walk the dog.

[Pete Owens]

I've never needed to use it for commuting, but if I did, I'd put up with whatever the time penalty was in order to be off the road. Personal preference.

You are seriously expecting us to believe that you take no consideration whatsoever to the time you spend commuting? That you enjoy cycling so much that there is no limit to your endurance and that you would happily spend 3 hours, 4 hours, 5 hours or whatever a day just getting to & from work? Maybe you are a particularly hardened and dedicated cyclist, but most of us just want to get to and from work as quickly as possible with the minimum of effort.

Now the ride to Plymouth (52 minutes for 13.6 miles) is already at the upper limit of what most would consider practical for commuting. Riding on a path you would be lucky to manage half that speed - and if you allow for the extra distance and climb you are probably talking about nearly 2 hours each way, Do you think nothing of setting your alarm clock an hour earlier every morning?

Soon the clocks will go back. You will be leaving the office in the dark - how will lit is that path? Is it gritted when it snows? On an evening such as today when it is pouring down do you still view the time penalty with equanimity?

[ChrisButch]

Nice shoes, Mick

[DevonDamo]

Pete: calm down dear.

Mick: you've cycled it this afternoon so I have to concede: you are right and I am wrong about the existence of some gravel on the path. (And hats off for making the effort to go and find out.) However, if anyone reading this thread now feels put off using the trail, please don't be. Mick presumably hasn't selected the smoothest sections of path to photograph, but nevertheless his piccies fairly well represent my recollection of the path's surface - i.e. good. On the two occasions I've done the full haul to Tavistock, I've never noticed this gravel and never had to moderate my speed due to surface conditions, except on the Gem Bridge which has thicker gravel. I've not really given any thought to the wet leaves. As NaturalAnkling has suggested - this may be a reflection of the wheels/tyres I'm using. I do the route to Clearbrook every night, and am regularly passed by lycra-clad speed-merchants, none of whom have either kids or canines in tow...

[niggle]

I rode this in late August, traveling up the C2C route from Plymouth.

I would agree that it is too slow and not suitably surfaced for commuting. Near Gem bridge there was a fair amount of loose material that I would class as grit rather than gravel, it was not a problem with 35mm tyres but I would imagine it would cause some drag with 23mm tyres. I was glad I was traveling in the direction I was, as it looked like a long slog up hill from the bridge going the other way. I also got caught by the steep rocky path up to Clearbrook, and it was hard pushing a loaded touring bike up it, signs could have warned of this but did not. However I really enjoyed myself doing the C2C and would do it again gladly. It really is a leisure facility and a very pleasant one at that, but the grit surface on that part will need some maintenance from what Mick has shown us.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I never thought that cycle paths which used off road routes such as dissused roads and railways etc, would ever be motorway type surfaces.

When I happen on a off road cyclepath or even bridleway I expect the worse and enjoy discovering them.

I have always said that some type of grading would be a nice idea so what to expect on route, but they can't even signpost them correctly or if at all, confusing at best which way to go next.

Let the roadies who I feel expect to much Keep to the roads.
And the others who enjoy the low stress of off road routes carry on.

Does anyone who is expecting to use cycle off road routes really think it practical to permantly surface all the old tracks etc,

I don't, but I know what I will find from past experience of walking and trail riding (motorcycle)
My last commuting to place of work was a planned route of on off road, unclassified roads forming the off road part.
yes it will take longer, if time is important then its the road, and I will agree if you are cycling 15 - 20 miles then you might be considering all road..

I predict that the cycle path thing will go into lack of funding in the future and they will not be maintained for years, to return to what they are now just old routes.

[Mick F]

Pete: calm down dear.

I'm calm, and happy thank you.
I was busy with the Poppy Appeal in the AM, but Mrs Mick F wanted me to get out and ride in the afternoon, so I obeyed so I decided to go to Drake's Trail for a look-see.

Actually, I had a nice 20odd mile ride.

Mick presumably hasn't selected the smoothest sections of path to photograph, but nevertheless his piccies fairly well represent my recollection of the path's surface - i.e. good. On the two occasions I've done the full haul to Tavistock, I've never noticed this gravel and never had to moderate my speed due to surface conditions, except on the Gem Bridge which has thicker gravel. I've not really given any thought to the wet leaves. As NaturalAnkling has suggested - this may be a reflection of the wheels/tyres I'm using. I do the route to Clearbrook every night, and am regularly passed by lycra-clad speed-merchants, none of whom have either kids or canines in tow...

I had difficulty in getting a good representation of the trail and doubled back once to get a photo. I took quite a few but TBH it all seemed a bit boring to display photographs of track surfaces.

Yes, the surface is "good" ie not riddled with tree roots or damp mud, but IMHO it's a long way from Good. There's a steep downhill not far from where I started and I shot down it but TBH I was being a little reckless. The trail was covered in wet leaves and the surface was far from smooth. I was going too fast to stop I reckon. Even if I had stopped, I wouldn't have bothered to get down to bottom gear to climb back up to take a photograph.

The gravel/grit surface on Gem Bridge isn't any thicker than the rest of the trail, it's just that it's clean. The open space that the bridge is in is continually blown by the wind. You feel that it's thicker, because you can see it properly there as opposed to the tree-covered trail where the gravel is obscured.

I really do worry about the leaves. The trail is very tree-lined and tree-covered, and by this time next year it'll be treacherous. I'm sure the powers that be would like to get rid of the leaves, but I reckon there's not a lot that can be done.

Going back to a previous point I made, there's a good alternative to Drake's Trail Tavistock to Yelverton by using the Old Packhorse Road. Not only is the road there of course, but there are shops and pubs in Whitchurch, Horrabridge and Walkhampton. Drake's Trail OTOH is completely devoid of any facility and other than a bench I saw, nowhere to sit down. From the Whitchurch road all the way to Yelverton, there is nothing ............ not even a way off save for a junction across the road south of Horrabridge. Basically, once you're on it, you're stuck on it.

Here's my recommendation:
http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course. ... rse=621239
Note that this is on roads.
Roads that are already there and not crossing a £2M white elephant of a bridge.
Roads that go through villages and where you can vary your route and admire the Devon countyside.

[Mick F]

I predict that the cycle path thing will go into lack of funding in the future and they will not be maintained for years, to return to what they are now just old routes.

Me too.

Most of these trails - or the ones I know about - are basically fun rides. Camel Trail, Granite Way, and Drake's Trail near here for instance all serve no actual purpose.

They are discussing a trail from Tavistock to Bere Alston now, but who want's to cycle between those places?
No one.
So they create a cycle trail and it brings who?
It brings families to have a bit of fun and walkers with ski-poles.

I'm not saying that fun isn't a good thing, it's just that we have better things to spend money on than somewhere for a bit of a cycle ride on a sunny Sunday.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I think that cycle trails could be developed in to part of the fabric of everyday life and somewhere to go to get away from the traffic.

But I fear that the ones with the purse and alterior motives have missed the point.
As Mick F said there is nothing on route for the sunday biker with family.
Easy to make some junctions to refreshments, even for the hardened biker like Mic F and may I a say myself
I actually like the lone solitude af trails with no frills but am happy to go on socially accepted routes for just some water to drink ( one of my biggest bugbears of the cycle routes if you are not out to spend money) I often find myself begging shop keepers for a bottle of water, (no rufusals yet) Tavistock has NO free water except toilets (not sure you pay to enter ) despite its very social town fit for all entertainment.

[Mick F]

I often find myself begging shop keepers for a bottle of water, (no rufusals yet) Tavistock has NO free water except toilets (not sure you pay to enter ) despite its very social town fit for all entertainment.

I wouldn't say "often" but it does happen.

Tavistock toilets:
(Strange subject!)
There's a free set in the market, but they aren't open when the market isn't.
There's a free 24/7 set off the end of Bedford Square adjacent to Market Rd.
Also some loos at the bus station, but I've never been to them.

As far as I can remember, the loos in the market have real taps and wash basins, but the 24/7 ones on Bedford Sq have the "washing machine" sort.


Back to cycle trails ......
The Granite Way has a bike hire place part-way along, and last time I was in there there was some sort of cafe. Just up the (quiet) road from there, there's a pub. Other than that, you have to wait until you get to Okehampton town centre - cafe's, pubs, shops abound. The other end of GW at Lydford, there's a pub. The shop/PO close years ago. Between the two sections of GW you can drop downhill to Bridestowe - shop and pub.

Contrast that to Drake's Trail.
Nothing at the start, nothing along the way until you get to Yelverton where you have to cross a busy road to the shops and pubs - and free 24/7 toilets. After that at Clearbrook there's a pub. After that, nothing until you get to Plymouth.

[honesty]

You've also got the NT shop and cafe in Lydford, which is rather good. I used the Drakes trail as part of a C2C a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because it was a windy off road trail through woods and lovely countryside and it was really nice and sunny and a good relaxing ride. I wasnt trying to get anywhere fast and I didnt need to take the most direct route. If either of these are considerations I would not take the path. Simple.