bicycle training

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
ianr1950
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Re: bicycle training

Postby ianr1950 » 13 May 2009, 4:05pm

2Tubs wrote:
ianr1950 wrote:I disagree that the training should be offered by schools or that it should be funded by the taxpayer. The schools have enough on their plates as it is.

If parents were keen enough to want their children to ride a bike they would happily do so and pay the same as they do for other after school activities which also benefit them healthwise.

Why should cycling be any different to other activities that parents want their children to do which they pay extra for.

If we can help children to think of cycling as a means of transport rather than a hobby, then it has the potential to save a fortune in treating obesity related disorders.

Not to mention the safer streets and the road sense it could help teach young people, potentially saving lives.

Using cycles to get to work ratehr than mommy's 4x4 will help ease congestion and save businesses a fortune in addition to making the roads a little bit safer.

Unlike a kid playnig footie or joining the photography club (neither a bad thing to do), cycling as a lifestyle choice can have a greater impact not just on the child, but on the rest of society.

Just a couple of reasons, I'm sure you can think of more.

Gazza


I can think of as many reasons that it is the parents responsibility over and above the schools.

The Macca Show
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Re: bicycle training

Postby The Macca Show » 13 May 2009, 4:11pm

rbrian wrote:I was referring to Cycling Proficiency in my earlier post, I'm surprised nobody made the link. I'm not really sure what it was about, except that my older siblings did it, and got a badge, and it was cancelled before it was my turn.


I got it. I also did it back in the day, cycling round the back streets of Westhill wearing my Tuff Top. Beautiful.
http://neilmclennanlejog2009.blogspot.com/

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vernon
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Re: bicycle training

Postby vernon » 14 May 2009, 6:46am

stephenjubb wrote:How about the government adding £1 to all car tax for cycle training?
Could also implement for pedestrians (though I think there would be too many)

This would raise £25 million (assuming 25 million cars) for cycle training.

Anyone then caught (assuming the police got a kick up the <i>[rude word removed]</i>) RLJing or anything dangerous either pays a big fine or goes on a cycle safety training course (which would be free) and has to pass or pay the fine.

There might be an argument that cyclists would attend, pass, then go back to their old ways, if this were the case the fine would keep doubling.

Any car driver moaning about paying an extra £1 would severely embarass themselves.

At least this proposal would be a start to getting idiot cyclists to ride safer.

What does everyone else think?


Let's do car owners for the same sins and send them on compulsory courses too.

Got to keep a balance.

vernon
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Re: bicycle training

Postby vernon » 14 May 2009, 6:51am

worthers wrote:Schools have plenty of time for cycle training - Personal Social Health Education (better known as PSHE) lessons. Usually about an hour a week, the syllabus includes education on drugs, alcohol, sexual health, fitness, environmental issues, citizenship and road safety. Personally I always thought it was a load of old tosh, but I reckon that cycle training could fit nicely into the fitness, environmental issues and road safety categories.


Level 2 bikeability is offered in Bradford as 3 x 3hour sessions. This is about 25% of the allocated time for PSHE. The syllabus/scheme of work is already overcrowded - what you recommend is displaced to make room for cycle training - assuming that every pupil has a roadworthy bike - and helmet - I can't imaging any schools allowing kids on the roads without a helmet.

Then there's the logistics of getting ones hands on accredited trainers and the secure storage of the bikes and equipment.....

The principle is sound, the practicalities are so straightforward....

Jimmy The Hand
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Re: bicycle training

Postby Jimmy The Hand » 14 May 2009, 9:14am

vernon wrote:assuming that every pupil has a roadworthy bike - and helmet - I can't imaging any schools allowing kids on the roads without a helmet.

Then there's the logistics of getting ones hands on accredited trainers and the secure storage of the bikes and equipment.....

The principle is sound, the practicalities are so straightforward....

I take it you meant to say 'aren't so straightforward' :P

One of the things I notice about this thread, amongst others, is how negative most posts are, it seems that we are all quite good and finding reasons why something won't/can't happen rather than finding solutions to make it happen for instance:

A grant of £140,000 has been awarded to provide cycle training for schoolchildren in Buckinghamshire. The government cash will allow 3,500 children aged nine and over to take part in the Bikeability scheme.

Need helmets for the kids on Bikeability or Bike Clubs, then try your local ASDA their 'Pedal Power campaign' are helping enable our Bike Clubs to help our communities.

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zenzinnia
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Re: bicycle training

Postby zenzinnia » 14 May 2009, 9:43am

Bikeability level 2 has roughly replaced the old Cycle Proficiency Test.

There is a growing interest in cycle training in schools and the Government has recently announced the grants to Councils to implement Bikeability level 2 training to kids in their final year of Primary School. Unfortunately this money can only be used to pay for trainers for these pupils (no admin, no adult training, no co-ordinating officer, no secondary school pupils etc - although these points are being fed back to Gov.).

Cycle training in schools can be done by teachers (who can also be trained to do it) or by trainers who have done the Bikeability course (4 days). One area where this training can be fitted in is within the new framework for sports. This aims to give every child 5 hours of exercise/PE/sport a week - 2hrs in school time and 3 out of them or in the community. There is also a provision within this framework to get kids who aren’t particularly sport orientated to do activities too, and cycling seems ideal for this. Anyone trying to 'get into' schools to promote cycle training could try this avenue (best to find the local school that is designated as the 'specialist sports college' or whatever. This will act as a hub for a 'cluster' of other schools (School Sports Partnership) and a dedicated co-ordinator).

Schools should also be putting cycle training in their School Travel Plans. Often it is the head teacher who is the big hurdle. They see cycling to school as inherently dangerous and will not allow it - even some schools that have gone through Safer Routes. Each school really needs to tackle it their own way. Some will be happy to get teachers doing training whilst others will need trainers bought in. There should be someone co-ordinating cycle training in schools at the County/ Unitary Council. Whilst there is an argument that says parents who want to get their kids trained will pay for it/ do it themselves - this does leave a lot of kids who won't get any assistance.

There are lots of other things going on at the moment such as Go Ride which links local cycle clubs up to schools to provide a path into cycle sport for school kids, the forthcoming 'Bike Clubs', Sustrans excellent 'Bike It' and ASDA's Pedal Power campaign as well as many local initiatives through councils, Community & Learning Partnerships, Local Strategic Partnerships and independent groups. After such a long time of no input and hitting heads a against a brick wall to get anything suddenly everyone is interested and the wall is not just having a few bricks removed but is being smashed apart by one of those big wrecking balls! It's now up to parents to put pressure on schools, teachers to latch on to the opportunities, Heads to get on board and kids to cycle.

ianr1950
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Re: bicycle training

Postby ianr1950 » 14 May 2009, 10:26am

zenzinnia wrote:Bikeability level 2 has roughly replaced the old Cycle Proficiency Test.

There is a growing interest in cycle training in schools and the Government has recently announced the grants to Councils to implement Bikeability level 2 training to kids in their final year of Primary School. Unfortunately this money can only be used to pay for trainers for these pupils (no admin, no adult training, no co-ordinating officer, no secondary school pupils etc - although these points are being fed back to Gov.).

Cycle training in schools can be done by teachers (who can also be trained to do it) or by trainers who have done the Bikeability course (4 days). One area where this training can be fitted in is within the new framework for sports. This aims to give every child 5 hours of exercise/PE/sport a week - 2hrs in school time and 3 out of them or in the community. There is also a provision within this framework to get kids who aren’t particularly sport orientated to do activities too, and cycling seems ideal for this. Anyone trying to 'get into' schools to promote cycle training could try this avenue (best to find the local school that is designated as the 'specialist sports college' or whatever. This will act as a hub for a 'cluster' of other schools (School Sports Partnership) and a dedicated co-ordinator).

Schools should also be putting cycle training in their School Travel Plans. Often it is the head teacher who is the big hurdle. They see cycling to school as inherently dangerous and will not allow it - even some schools that have gone through Safer Routes. Each school really needs to tackle it their own way. Some will be happy to get teachers doing training whilst others will need trainers bought in. There should be someone co-ordinating cycle training in schools at the County/ Unitary Council. Whilst there is an argument that says parents who want to get their kids trained will pay for it/ do it themselves - this does leave a lot of kids who won't get any assistance.

There are lots of other things going on at the moment such as Go Ride which links local cycle clubs up to schools to provide a path into cycle sport for school kids, the forthcoming 'Bike Clubs', Sustrans excellent 'Bike It' and ASDA's Pedal Power campaign as well as many local initiatives through councils, Community & Learning Partnerships, Local Strategic Partnerships and independent groups. After such a long time of no input and hitting heads a against a brick wall to get anything suddenly everyone is interested and the wall is not just having a few bricks removed but is being smashed apart by one of those big wrecking balls! It's now up to parents to put pressure on schools, teachers to latch on to the opportunities, Heads to get on board and kids to cycle.


Why on earth should teachers have to go and be cycle trainers as well.

It is not the case that heads are the big hurdle just becasuse they can't be bothered but because this government puts out all these great ideas but don't provide the funding or time.

I am involved with Go Ride with my cycling club and we have had support with using a local schools grounds but the school cannot afford to send staff onto the training course and why should they anyway. How many members of staff would need to be trained anyway.

Schools have to abide with pupil staff ratios when providing these activities. Would anyone on here want to run and supervise cycle training to classes of 30 children by themslves.

it should mainly be the parents to sort this out, if they cant be bothered why should others.

How do you overcome the issue of children who don't have bikes. The problem is the same as those whose parents can't or won't pay for any training which is felt that children need.

The training point in itself is something I don't neccessarily agree is neccessary to have so called accredited trainers.

It should still be up to parents to do it however they feel is the best way.

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worthers
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Re: bicycle training

Postby worthers » 14 May 2009, 10:46am

ianr1950 wrote:
worthers wrote:Schools have plenty of time for cycle training - Personal Social Health Education (better known as PSHE) lessons. Usually about an hour a week, the syllabus includes education on drugs, alcohol, sexual health, fitness, environmental issues, citizenship and road safety. Personally I always thought it was a load of old tosh, but I reckon that cycle training could fit nicely into the fitness, environmental issues and road safety categories.


You honestly believe so do you.

Of the hour you mention you would be left with probably half that taking into account the time spent getting the children outside, getting the bikes unlocked from where they are stored and then returned.( this assumes that the school has enough space and money to provide this facility)

It should not be the responsibilty of schools to do this.

General health and fitness yes but not this.


I know so: we do it at the moment in several local schools! With the Road Safety team we run Cycling Proficiency in primary schools, and on behalf of several charities/organisations we run National Standards ("Bikeability") training in secondary schools.

Of course it's not ideal - an hour a week is not nearly long enough - but it's undeniably better than nothing. It's a very tight schedule and obviously we can't cover anywhere near as much as I'd like to, but it's a start. And if it's not the responsibility of the school then who's responsibility is it? The kids? The parents?! :lol: Not likely.

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worthers
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Re: bicycle training

Postby worthers » 14 May 2009, 12:34pm

ianr1950 wrote:Why on earth should teachers have to go and be cycle trainers as well.

it should mainly be the parents to sort this out, if they cant be bothered why should others.

How do you overcome the issue of children who don't have bikes. The problem is the same as those whose parents can't or won't pay for any training which is felt that children need.

The training point in itself is something I don't neccessarily agree is neccessary to have so called accredited trainers.

It should still be up to parents to do it however they feel is the best way.


Ian, I completely agree that the responsibility for training should not fall upon teachers, they're already overworked. I also agree that there's a distinct lack of funding and a shortage of trained/accredited instructors.

However I have to disagree that the onus of training children should fall upon parents, and also on the necessity of well-trained, accredited and accountable instructors.

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stephenjubb
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Re: bicycle training

Postby stephenjubb » 14 May 2009, 2:01pm

may be time for a six day school week!! with more teachers to avoid overworking any more existing teachers

ianr1950
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Re: bicycle training

Postby ianr1950 » 14 May 2009, 2:26pm

worthers wrote:
ianr1950 wrote:
worthers wrote:Schools have plenty of time for cycle training - Personal Social Health Education (better known as PSHE) lessons. Usually about an hour a week, the syllabus includes education on drugs, alcohol, sexual health, fitness, environmental issues, citizenship and road safety. Personally I always thought it was a load of old tosh, but I reckon that cycle training could fit nicely into the fitness, environmental issues and road safety categories.


You honestly believe so do you.

Of the hour you mention you would be left with probably half that taking into account the time spent getting the children outside, getting the bikes unlocked from where they are stored and then returned.( this assumes that the school has enough space and money to provide this facility)

It should not be the responsibilty of schools to do this.

General health and fitness yes but not this.


I know so: we do it at the moment in several local schools! With the Road Safety team we run Cycling Proficiency in primary schools, and on behalf of several charities/organisations we run National Standards ("Bikeability") training in secondary schools.

Of course it's not ideal - an hour a week is not nearly long enough - but it's undeniably better than nothing. It's a very tight schedule and obviously we can't cover anywhere near as much as I'd like to, but it's a start. And if it's not the responsibility of the school then who's responsibility is it? The kids? The parents?! :lol: Not likely.


My experience is very different from yours obviously but why isn't it the parents responsibility, I do not believe it is the right way to go by putting the onus onto the schools.




I don't agree with the anything is better than nothing idea either. A little knowledge in the wrong hands can be worse than non at all.
Last edited by ianr1950 on 14 May 2009, 2:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

ianr1950
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Re: bicycle training

Postby ianr1950 » 14 May 2009, 2:37pm

worthers wrote:
ianr1950 wrote:Why on earth should teachers have to go and be cycle trainers as well.

it should mainly be the parents to sort this out, if they cant be bothered why should others.

How do you overcome the issue of children who don't have bikes. The problem is the same as those whose parents can't or won't pay for any training which is felt that children need.

The training point in itself is something I don't neccessarily agree is neccessary to have so called accredited trainers.

It should still be up to parents to do it however they feel is the best way.


Ian, I completely agree that the responsibility for training should not fall upon teachers, they're already overworked. I also agree that there's a distinct lack of funding and a shortage of trained/accredited instructors.

However I have to disagree that the onus of training children should fall upon parents, and also on the necessity of well-trained, accredited and accountable instructors.


If the way to do it is to have so called accredited trainers which I am not 100% agreeing with but my point is that it is the parents responsibility to teach their children by organising training with 'trainers' if they do not feel capable themselves or by teaching them personally.

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worthers
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Re: bicycle training

Postby worthers » 14 May 2009, 4:03pm

ianr1950 wrote:If the way to do it is to have so called accredited trainers which I am not 100% agreeing with but my point is that it is the parents responsibility to teach their children by organising training with 'trainers' if they do not feel capable themselves or by teaching them personally.
I understand your point and agree with it...in principle. Ideally the parents would take responsibility for teaching their children; either directly, or if incapable/unwilling to do so then by recruiting a good trainer. Unfortunately at this point in time not nearly enough parents would bother, so I do see it as necessary for local authorities to step in and ensure that some provision is made, and I'm sure you'll agree that schools are the easiest place to deliver this (even if they're arguably not the best place to deliver it).

vernon
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Re: bicycle training

Postby vernon » 14 May 2009, 8:51pm

ianr1950 wrote:
zenzinnia wrote:Bikeability level 2 has roughly replaced the old Cycle Proficiency Test.

There is a growing interest in cycle training in schools and the Government has recently announced the grants to Councils to implement Bikeability level 2 training to kids in their final year of Primary School. Unfortunately this money can only be used to pay for trainers for these pupils (no admin, no adult training, no co-ordinating officer, no secondary school pupils etc - although these points are being fed back to Gov.).

Cycle training in schools can be done by teachers (who can also be trained to do it) or by trainers who have done the Bikeability course (4 days). One area where this training can be fitted in is within the new framework for sports. This aims to give every child 5 hours of exercise/PE/sport a week - 2hrs in school time and 3 out of them or in the community. There is also a provision within this framework to get kids who aren’t particularly sport orientated to do activities too, and cycling seems ideal for this. Anyone trying to 'get into' schools to promote cycle training could try this avenue (best to find the local school that is designated as the 'specialist sports college' or whatever. This will act as a hub for a 'cluster' of other schools (School Sports Partnership) and a dedicated co-ordinator).

Schools should also be putting cycle training in their School Travel Plans. Often it is the head teacher who is the big hurdle. They see cycling to school as inherently dangerous and will not allow it - even some schools that have gone through Safer Routes. Each school really needs to tackle it their own way. Some will be happy to get teachers doing training whilst others will need trainers bought in. There should be someone co-ordinating cycle training in schools at the County/ Unitary Council. Whilst there is an argument that says parents who want to get their kids trained will pay for it/ do it themselves - this does leave a lot of kids who won't get any assistance.

There are lots of other things going on at the moment such as Go Ride which links local cycle clubs up to schools to provide a path into cycle sport for school kids, the forthcoming 'Bike Clubs', Sustrans excellent 'Bike It' and ASDA's Pedal Power campaign as well as many local initiatives through councils, Community & Learning Partnerships, Local Strategic Partnerships and independent groups. After such a long time of no input and hitting heads a against a brick wall to get anything suddenly everyone is interested and the wall is not just having a few bricks removed but is being smashed apart by one of those big wrecking balls! It's now up to parents to put pressure on schools, teachers to latch on to the opportunities, Heads to get on board and kids to cycle.


Why on earth should teachers have to go and be cycle trainers as well.


I am seeking training to become a cycle trainer but it is a costly excercise - I need to have four days off school so a repalcement teacher has to be funded. There's the cost of the course itself to be added to the bill and there's then a reasonable expectation of what I could deliver once trained in terms of frequency and duration of courses.

It is not the case that heads are the big hurdle just becasuse they can't be bothered but because this government puts out all these great ideas but don't provide the funding or time.


I work in a new build school. There's £5,000 available for a travel plan - this will not go far. We also are about to receive secure cycle storage facilities though how secure and how big remain unanswered so far.

I am involved with Go Ride with my cycling club and we have had support with using a local schools grounds but the school cannot afford to send staff onto the training course and why should they anyway. How many members of staff would need to be trained anyway.


I am a school based Go Ride level one trainer. I managed to lig my way onto a course but I've not been granted any time during the school day to deliver any activities and I'm expected to deliver them after school. The big opportunity for me is during the last half term of the academic year when my timetable is lightened by the year eleven pupils been on study leave and even then there's resentment if I take pupils from lessons.

Schools have to abide with pupil staff ratios when providing these activities. Would anyone on here want to run and supervise cycle training to classes of 30 children by themselves.


I refuse to take more than 12 kids for Go Ride activities. The LEA Bikeability trainers will not accept more than five pupils each.

it should mainly be the parents to sort this out, if they cant be bothered why should others.

How do you overcome the issue of children who don't have bikes. The problem is the same as those whose parents can't or won't pay for any training which is felt that children need.


I don't see bike provision as a responsibility of the school. There's the capital cost of the bikes then the need for regular maintainance - who's going to do it? I know of a cycle advocate who posts in another forum who does the lot - procures bikes, services them, transports them and trains kids. He doesn't seem to have a life outside of school and cycling.....


The training point in itself is something I don't neccessarily agree is neccessary to have so called accredited trainers.

Try being a head teacher confronted by a parent of an injured child who'd been injured while being trained by an uninsured non accredited trainer.

<mod: post edited to make the quoted sections more obvious>

ianr1950
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Re: bicycle training

Postby ianr1950 » 15 May 2009, 10:31am

Vernon, I agree with you about the point of a head being confronted by a parent of an injured child, which is to me one of the reasons why I do not believe in the idea that it should be the schools responsibilty.

The other points you have highlighted are very true and very costly in both time and money which many schools just do not have.

The whole bikeabilty thing is to me yet another of the projects that this government is so fond of launching yet so badly thought out in how they can be augmented properly and effectively.