Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
saudidave
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Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby saudidave » 6 Jul 2009, 8:22pm

Whilst driving to Manchester Airport this morning, I was turning left at some traffic lights when an irate cyclist started banging on my car roof and calling me a "bloody clown" for nearly knocking him off. It clearly hadn't occurred to him that undertaking cars at road junctions (i.e. passing on the nearside), wasn't exactly a smart move, particularly when you are dressed head to foot in black, thus rendering yourself invisible. I don't recall the manouvre being approved when I did a cycling proficiency test, some 45 years ago. (I commute by bike myself, 100 miles a week by the way)

tali42
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby tali42 » 6 Jul 2009, 8:49pm

saudidave wrote:particularly when you are dressed head to foot in black, thus rendering yourself invisible.


Unless it was dark at the time and he had no lights, the invisibility claim is a bit hard to take. It isn't the best color to cycle in, but it certainly shouldn't be said to make you invisible in daylight.

As for passing on the inside, I generally only do it when motor vehicles are stationary, and even then quite slowly. If traffic starts moving, I don't try and overtake anything, regardless of if there is likely to be a left hand turn incident. I've learned that motorists will often drift left after passing a cyclist, without checking if they've drawn level again.

saudidave
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby saudidave » 6 Jul 2009, 9:35pm

tali42 wrote:
saudidave wrote:particularly when you are dressed head to foot in black, thus rendering yourself invisible.


Unless it was dark at the time and he had no lights, the invisibility claim is a bit hard to take. It isn't the best color to cycle in, but it certainly shouldn't be said to make you invisible in daylight.

As for passing on the inside, I generally only do it when motor vehicles are stationary, and even then quite slowly. If traffic starts moving, I don't try and overtake anything, regardless of if there is likely to be a left hand turn incident. I've learned that motorists will often drift left after passing a cyclist, without checking if they've drawn level again.


Exactly. Cautiously when they are stationary but never pass on the inside when they are moving past a junction. I must say that you are more cautious than me, because I do pass on the inside if there is no junction. As for the fact that wearing black shouldn't have rendered him invisible in daylight, sadly it did. If he had been wearing luminous yellow I'd certainly have had a better chance of spotting him, for sure.

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EdinburghFixed
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby EdinburghFixed » 6 Jul 2009, 10:26pm

Indeed, black is a very bad choice if you're trying to be invisible during the day. Because humans identify things by outline, a large black shape is rather easy to identify against almost all surfaces. It occurs so rarely in the urban environment (pure black areas, this is) that you would almost always stick out like a sore thumb! This is why the military (and natural camoflague in animals) favour contrasting colours that break up outlines. Maybe you should have advised him to get a mixture of grey tones if he really wanted to blend in, for some reason! :)

I suppose the owners of black cars, like dark cyclists, could liven things up by sticking on multicoloured reflective police-style markings, but neither group really ought to bother.

As for filtering past, it depends on the location of course, but you'll be pleased (or not) to hear that the highway code does include an instruction to drivers to take passing cyclists into account. As you said yourself, you "nearly knocked a bloke off his bike". Times move on, perhaps?

I have myself often been annoyed at filtering riders and at unobservant drivers; probably I am both myself, although of course I will never be able to find out unless I encounter some sort of temporal vortex! The onus is still on the driver to Mirror, Signal, Manouvre though. :?

glueman
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby glueman » 7 Jul 2009, 8:07am

Rear observations should be made whenever you intend to move out of a straight line. Turn left, look left first - in a car that means looking in a mirror. On a bike a rear ob is a lifesaver, literally.
That said filtering, or overtaking to give it a more realistic name, should be undertaken with extreme caution, not as an extra bike lane at bike lane speeds. The sight lines are poor and close proximity means there's no chance for evasive action.

Kirst
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby Kirst » 7 Jul 2009, 12:54pm

I don't believe for a minute that black clothing rendered him invisible. I suspect you didn't look.
I can handle bars and cycle paths but I can't handle cars and psychopaths

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kwackers
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby kwackers » 7 Jul 2009, 1:13pm

glueman wrote:Rear observations should be made whenever you intend to move out of a straight line. Turn left, look left first - in a car that means looking in a mirror. On a bike a rear ob is a lifesaver, literally.
That said filtering, or overtaking to give it a more realistic name, should be undertaken with extreme caution, not as an extra bike lane at bike lane speeds. The sight lines are poor and close proximity means there's no chance for evasive action.


That quick check left is one of the first casualties of drivers bad habits, I use a cycle lane to creep up on some lights near me past the queueing cars - obviously I'd never undertake something when there was a chance it might cut across my path but keeping an eye on the mirrors shows that perhaps fewer than 1 in 4 actually look to see if there is something to their left and that despite the fact there is a cycle lane there.

Then again sometimes there's the occasional momentary deadlock when someone does look, sees me and stops waiting for me to go past - even though I too am stopped waiting to filter into the gap behind them.

gilesjuk
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby gilesjuk » 7 Jul 2009, 1:20pm

Take more care?

In an ideal world nobody would make mistakes, but they do and they do it on the roads all the time. Be more cynical and expect cyclists and pedestrians to do stupid things.

sirmy
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby sirmy » 7 Jul 2009, 6:46pm

Glueman - why do you assume Saudidave didn't look in his mirror? A quick look in the rear view mirror wouldn't show someone moving down the nearside of a car, I don't know anyone who would look in their nearside door mirror before turning left, if you've passed nothing approaching a junction, as Saudidave says he can't recall passing anyone, there's no need to do so.

The easiest way to avoid these incidents is to sty in the line of traffic and don't move down the nearside of cars, it's not filtering, it's just a very stupid thing to do.

glueman
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby glueman » 7 Jul 2009, 7:26pm

sirmy wrote:Glueman - why do you assume Saudidave didn't look in his mirror? A quick look in the rear view mirror wouldn't show someone moving down the nearside of a car, I don't know anyone who would look in their nearside door mirror before turning left, if you've passed nothing approaching a junction, as Saudidave says he can't recall passing anyone, there's no need to do so.

The easiest way to avoid these incidents is to sty in the line of traffic and don't move down the nearside of cars, it's not filtering, it's just a very stupid thing to do.

I always look in my car wing mirror before turning left for precisely such people. If you don't do a left hand side rear observation before turning left on a motorcycle test you'd fail. I also peer down the side of cars if I'm on a pedestrian crossing because you can't assume cyclists have agreed to give way because everyone else has.
I don't know whether Saudidave looked in his side mirror or not but that's how people get squashed by HGVs. I'm totally against cyclists treating the nearside as an impromtu bike lane which is quite different from saying cyclists shouldn't be allowed to filter nearside with extreme caution - for themselves and pedestrians.

DougieB
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby DougieB » 7 Jul 2009, 7:40pm

sirmy wrote:as Saudidave says he can't recall passing anyone, there's no need to do so.


obviously there was/is a need.

kwackers
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby kwackers » 7 Jul 2009, 7:51pm

sirmy wrote:Glueman - why do you assume Saudidave didn't look in his mirror? A quick look in the rear view mirror wouldn't show someone moving down the nearside of a car, I don't know anyone who would look in their nearside door mirror before turning left, if you've passed nothing approaching a junction, as Saudidave says he can't recall passing anyone, there's no need to do so.


I think it pretty shocking that anyone - especially a cyclist wouldn't think they should look in the mirror before they turn! It should be a habit not something you do if you think there might be another vehicle around...

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bigjim
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby bigjim » 7 Jul 2009, 8:29pm

Dave
Did you an indicator on?
Nothing left to prove. http://adenough1.blogspot.co.uk/

eileithyia
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby eileithyia » 7 Jul 2009, 10:50pm

Hmm more info needed, Had you been sat stationary at lights with indicator on before moving off to turn left as lights changed?, if so then cyclist is an idiot. I freely admit to "filtering" on the left at junctions etc., but (try) to keep a sharp watch for; indicating vehicles, lights changing and traffic moving off, and potential left turners who are not signalling. It is surprising how you develop an instinct for the latter, over the years.
Also if lights change as I am doing the filtering I try to make sure I am not directly on the inside of any vehicle as it starts to move off, ie drop back to behind their bumper so am out of the way of potential left turners who may not be signalling.

If however you were approaching green lights and turned left across a cyclist who you never saw................ well different matter entirely.
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Kirst
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Re: Nearly knocked a bloke off his bike this morning

Postby Kirst » 8 Jul 2009, 12:45pm

saudidave wrote: As for the fact that wearing black shouldn't have rendered him invisible in daylight, sadly it did. .

So why haven't the rest of us heard about this new miracle invisibility fabric?

He wasn't invisible. You didn't see him. That's not the same thing.
I can handle bars and cycle paths but I can't handle cars and psychopaths

http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname


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