Prison sentence

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
reohn2

Re:Prison sentence

Postby reohn2 » 19 Sep 2006, 7:36pm

I don't advocate a lifetime sentence but a lifetime's a long time to be without your dad,brother,son, when all he did was go to church,and all she had to do was nothing at all. She could have drunk herself daft for me. Then done nothing. its easy doing nothing.

dai

Re:Prison sentence

Postby dai » 19 Sep 2006, 9:31pm

Two years is a long time to be dead

andrew_s

Re:Prison sentence

Postby andrew_s » 19 Sep 2006, 10:06pm

Sentenced to for year, banned from driving for five:
Assuming she gets released after 2 years, as seems to be normal these days, if she's subsequently caught driving whilst banned, does anyone know if that means she goes back to prison to finish off the other 2 years?

daveg

Re:Prison sentence

Postby daveg » 20 Sep 2006, 1:00pm

Well, there's some strong views here. When I fisrt saw it I must admit that I was sat firmly on the fence. As I do get to go into prisosn from time to time (they always let me back out again) the prospect of spending a single day / night in prison scares the hell out of me. But then there weas a huge amount of culpability in that she was in control of her actions, decided to drive badly, decided to drive away from the scene.

Driving to work this morning I heard an interview on Radio 4 with a woman who had lost her daughter in a road traffic accident. Sounded like the bloke who crashed into her had a bit of a history. I was nearly in tears. Sits with this in I don't know how you get "justice" for the vctims relatives.

EssexMan

Re:Prison sentence

Postby EssexMan » 20 Sep 2006, 1:46pm

We were listening to the same article , in a 30mph zone doing around 30. We were overtaken by someone who clearly wasnt listening to that article and who didnt think 30mph applied to him.

Kind of made me even sadder.

Stuart

Re:Prison sentence

Postby Stuart » 20 Sep 2006, 2:19pm

Two years in jail is far too long and expensive, a couple of hours in a locked room with the victims family would be more appropriate.

knuckingfackered

Re:Prison sentence

Postby knuckingfackered » 20 Sep 2006, 8:08pm

And then you hear of a four year sentence for an animal rights activist who killed nobody :-(

reohn2

Re:Prison sentence

Postby reohn2 » 22 Sep 2006, 8:00am

And a driver who kills four people(Rhyl) and gets £180 fine and points.

And a cyclist who holds up traffic for a few seconds and gets £100 fine.

the loonies are.....................

Velocio

Re:Prison sentence

Postby Velocio » 22 Sep 2006, 11:31am

...or suggesting a cyclist who doesn't use his/her bell will receive two years imprisonment!

...yes...reohn2...they are running the asylum...

:)

thirdcrank

Re:Prison sentence

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Sep 2006, 12:28am

IMO jb is pretty well spot on here. Four years, serving two with normal remission is a lot of porridge.

A couple of general points on sentencing. The so-called adversarial system seeks to establish 'guilt' rather than the truth and the safeguards seen as necessary to prevent miscarriages of justice mean that the palpably blameworthy often escape conviction. This means that those who are convicted are often the less adequate yet society bays for harsher punishment. (same system but much harsher in US with no obvious reduction in offending.)

The UK courts system has never really got a grip of dealing with motoring offenders. Driving is essentially an expensive (rich man's) activity but nowadays often carried out by quite poor people, often whose living depends, or is claimed to depend on a clean driving licence. No money to pay fines (which often go unpaid when imposed), alleged risk of job loss if disqualified from driving (and little risk of detection if banned and flouting ban), offences not serious enough for imprisonment: situation deadlock.

Andy Tallis

Re:Prison sentence

Postby Andy Tallis » 25 Sep 2006, 9:22am

How about a very long community service order and a longer driving ban? Less cost to the taxpayer.

I don't think being drunk is any excuse any more than chosing to drive when far too tired or in a fulty car. Doesn't seem like anyone forced her to drink or drive afterwards.

Andy

reohn2

Re:Prison sentence

Postby reohn2 » 25 Sep 2006, 9:48am

T/C;Where theres a will theres a way, there aparently is no will to make offenders face upto and pay for what they have done,it is far too easy to" get off with it",if someone can afford a car and run it they can afford to pay the fines/punishment,or don't commit them in the first place.
The problem is that people get in a car and think for some bizzare reason that they are immune to the law. I suspect this is because everyone, including the judges drive cars,but not everyone cycles,I'd go as far to say that cyclists are regarded as the bizzare ones therefore marginalised as nutters by drivers and, we are being killed!

thinks........I thought at one point of having some cycling tops made with the logo "HUMAN BEING "on the back, but that may be a little extreme I don't know.

Two years may seem a long time in prison but the victim in question is lot longer dead.

thirdcrank

Re:Prison sentence

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Sep 2006, 5:07pm

r2 The point I try to make about driving is that many are paid to drive a company vehicle of some sort.

The obvious solution here is much stronger enforcement of road traffic law including cameras for traffic lights, illegal manoeuvres, numberplate recognition and so on. I think successive govts., but most particularly this one have felt that traffic enforcement is unpopular and could, therefore, be ditched. In fact, even some of the most ardent petrolheads are coming to realise that the present unpoliced chaos benefits nobody. It is wrong to assume, as some on here do, that most motorists are by nature lawbreakers. IMO most people are by nature quite law-abiding in everything they do. Some are tempted to take the odd chance when they know they are likely to go unpunished. Most of the pressure for less enforcement comes from a few very vehement people, usually those who happen to have been caught themselves. Read 'Honest John' in the Saturday Daily Telegraph motoring section for a taste.

I am fortunate that I have never had a member of my own immediate family killed or even seriously injured in a traffic collision, but I have come into contact with plenty who have. I have also seen enough drivers in varying stages of drunkenness to know how irresponsible such conduct is.

I also have seen enough of prison to know that for the most part it is a very expensive way of restraining people with all sorts of problems including mental illness and different addictions. There is a strong case for detaining some unpleasant people for decades as a crime prevention measure. I am sure that prison is a deterrent for some people, i.e. the huge majority of decent people (like you and me, perhaps) for whom the idea of even a week in prison would more than do the trick. IMO the only people who might be deterred by long sentences are the 'professional' criminals who weigh up the pro's and con's before acting. These are the very ones who are most likely to be in a position to exploit loopholes because they create them as part of their planning process. It is their apparent immunity which leads to demands for tougher sentencing, and consequently jails bulging with inadequates.

I think it is fair to say, but I have no evidence to support this that the countries with a so-called inquisitorial system generally have a public who are more satisfied with the administration of justice. They certainly tend to have lower prison populations than the UK and considerably lower than in the US.

reohn2

Re:Prison sentence

Postby reohn2 » 25 Sep 2006, 6:33pm

T/C;with regards to better enforcement of the law i agree whole heartedly,and stronger punishment when caught as the punishments now being dished out are paltry compared with the crimes comitted,ie local average;offence no tax,insurance,MOT,license=£250 fine +points on the license the offender does not have.Particularly when the average fine for no TVl icense is £150!
with regards to the mentaly ill, substance abuse addicts,they are in the wrong place i agree.
For the majority of us(society)the thought of prison is enough to stop us going there, so we are left with the professional and persisstant offenders who should be locking up for a very long time.whiich brings me back to the point , where there's a will there's a way, we don't have the will otherwise we would close the loopholes.

We are not talking of people who don't know the law here,if I drink and drive then hit someone, I know what I'm doing, then if i drive off leaving the victim lying in the road to die, two years in prison is not good enough,a five year ban from driving is not long enough.
If i drive a car with three illegal tyres on it then plough into a group of cyclists I should not have even been therein the first place.
I realise prison and rehabilitation is costly, we will have to pay the price for both either with money or as we are at the moment with maimed and dead people.

"Inquisitorial systems"i'm sorry Idon't know what that means,
you'll have to enlighten me.

I hope i've covered all the points you've raised.

PS, most motoristists are law breakers and persistently so, though not all danegerously so.

Doug

Postby Doug » 2 Feb 2007, 11:53am

Getting in a car knowing you have drunk 4 large glasses of wine is a deliberate act.

We all have to take responsibilty for our actions - there is more than enough education/information about the results of drinking and driving. Unless the sentence fits the crime - where is the deterent?