the nemisis of studded tyres

[Si]

I've found a failing in their armoury today.

there was a slight thaw yesterday resulting in this sort of draw slush sat on top of the snow and ice. It's a bit like piles of grey sorbet in the road. This stuff seems to be dense enough to keep your studs from getting into the ice below, by soft enough that the tyre will slide to the side in it.

It's a bit like trying to go up a loose or muddy slope on an MTB when the rear wheel keeps breaking free and jumping sideways.

I found that the wheel would slide sideways a few inches and then regain so grip (or I managed to rebalance the bike). It wasn't anywhere near as unnerving as riding on ice with unstudded tyres but was a little worrying at times. even had to dab once when I ran out of momentum to get up a hill while in the middle of a patch of this stuff.

Despite this, I still find studded tyres a lot better than normal ones in these conditions 'cause I'm sure that unstudded tyres would have had me down long before.

Anyway...never did I imagine that I'd ever be out looking for patches of sheet ice to ride on 'cos it was safer

[rapidfire72]

I don't have studded tyres, however I have mtb tyres. I normally use a 700x38 for commuting to work, but this winter weather has the mtb out for that reason.

The tyres that were on were fine at first, pretty much coping with the thin layer of snow around Xmas time. But, after the recent heavy fall of snow, the tyres could not cope, maybe fine for mud and gravel and not deep snow.

I got some cheap Kenda's and the tread is excellent, however in deep snow, I did have to walk. Most of the cycle-paths was that very slushy snow stuff. However, the hard packed snow is fine for cycling on.

Yes, I'm very pleased with the Kenda's @£6 each.

[manybikes]

Si
Your review is useful and I wish I had some here this year. However I suspect that either I or the tyres would perish before the next fall as good as this in Hampshire.(Its been 30 years) It was fun for the first two days when no traffic was about but more frightening now that more are using their cars etc. so I've given up for a while

[Phileas]

Si

I agree totally with every point you make.

I'm using Schwalbe Marathon Winters. Of course, they're primarily ice tyres so I can't really expect them to be that great in slush. I wonder if some of the more aggressive tyres like the Schwalbe Ice Spiker for example would cope better in sorbet?

The problem with snow is there are so many states it can be in - no doubt Eskimos have a word for each one

Phileas

[Kevin K]

Si, I've observed something similar although not when the snow has thawed (it hasn't been warm enough for that here!) but when parked cars drop the snow accumulated underneath, leaving piles of snow which are softer and slushier than that underneath. Fortunately they are easy to spot, but difficult to avoid. That said, I've still not managed to come off yet...

[rualexander]

Yes we were in some of that stuff today, reminded me of riding in sand more than snow, and it seems to be the trickiest stuff for the studded tyres to handle. I let the tyres down quite a bit, probably to about 35psi, and found a significant improvement in traction.

[ersakus]

I have the Marathon winters in 35x700 but prefer walking the bike if the road has slush. Too stressfull to ride otherwise and lots of effort is needed. Probably dangerous as well although I never came off myself, always able to compensate or put a foot down.. Studs have limits too

It would be interesting to hear if anyone managed to fall with studded tyres on snowy/icy conditions..

[[XAP]Bob]

The problem with snow is there are so many states it can be in - no doubt Eskimos have a word for each one

Nah - it's only in this country where the temperature hovers around zero that water forms so many interesting and slippery options.

Mind you, the roads round here are pretty good, gently for a few hundred yards then just got held up by the traffic in town, decent journey otherwise. My two colleagues who live in the same town took twice as long to get in to work as me today...

[Si]

Yes we were in some of that stuff today, reminded me of riding in sand more than snow, and it seems to be the trickiest stuff for the studded tyres to handle. I let the tyres down quite a bit, probably to about 35psi, and found a significant improvement in traction.

Yep, I think you've very much hit the nail on the head - it's exactly like riding throughdry sand in the summer - the bike just up and decides to wonder of on its own course. If you take it easy then it's easy to unclip and put a foot down should this happen as it's not a sudden loss of grip like ice.

[grognut]

Hi All,

I made my own studded tyre at the week end using m3 screws and nyloc nuts plus a couple of 4mm washers, one inside and one out. I put about 40 round the tyre. I used an old slightly perished fairly knobbly tyre (camel) that I was using on the snow last week. Only did the front but it made a huge difference. The rear slides around but the front only moves a little. I had been using those semi-slicks thingys at end of last year but I felt these were far to risky especially after the top of the ice had thawed just before Christmas.

Can post a pic if anyone's interested although there are lots of diy studding link on the web.
Some of the roads round here are covered in compact snow with broken up patches. I agree, this is like riding in sand but luckily the pathes are only short.

Cheers

[stephenjubb]

In 300 yards of slush yesterday on studded tyres nearly fell of 3 times, didn't fancy injuring my knee again after an accident in november.

apart from slush they have been good in all conditions.

[gilesjuk]

Metal isn't well regarded for its grip. Look at trains, can't even pull off if there's leaves on the line.

[Si]

Metal isn't well regarded for its grip. Look at trains, can't even pull off if there's leaves on the line.

I think that you are comparing chalk and cheese there.
Studs don't work via friction, as engine wheels do, but by digging into the ice. In the slush they have no negative effect, they just don't work as well as on ice. They still work at least as well as a normal knobbly tyre in the slush, and you are more likely to regain grip with them during a slide.

[horizon]

14 days and counting...

I rode to work throughout the freeze every day (4 - 5 hilly miles, some of it walked with the bike) on a variety of routes - road, pavement, canal path, grass. The amazing thing was the variation in surface from one day to the next - sometimes the road was better, sometimes the pavement as the snow melted and refroze and then was relayered with a fresh fall. And yes it did remind me of fanatical skiers who know every kind of surface and wax their skis accordingly. I'm still waiting for my studded tyres but I am glad I waited. I am now quite convinced that the only tyre suitable for this variety of conditions is a fully studded, very knobbly 2.1 MTB. There is simply too much slush to make a studded road(ish) tyre (aka Marathon Winter?) sufficient and too much hard ice for a knobbly tyre to do the job.

Failing a studded tyre, I would opt for a good MTB knobbly. I had a Panaracer Smoke 2.1 on one wheel and an old MTB 1.9 on the other - the difference was already remarkable on various grades of ice.

Suddenly a whole new world of winter riding, greater utility, new gear, more expense, more fiddling, new challenges has opened up - it makes the summer seem quite boring.