Worst youtube clip i've seen...

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kwackers
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby kwackers » 2 Mar 2010, 5:23pm

iamanidiot wrote:
Coffee wrote:Have you found it on trucknet too? (google the clip URL)

I thought it was scary the amount of blame being aportioned to magnatom on this forum...

Looking at the comments though, what do we find?

Cycling too fast (That made me laugh. Most cars enter roundabouts like they're on a slalom course. It's a bicycle {FFE - family-friendly edit }, hardly impossible to gauge the speed of - especially if people actually look!)
Not using the cycle lane - big deal, what it had to do with the island - who knows.
....
And they continue down to the "doesn't pay road tax etc" type of nonsense.

All excuses. Why? Because we get in their way and if one of them takes out one of us they need excuses because the alternative is that they themselves must be at fault and we can't have that...

The truth is like most road users they don't want to be held up for a few seconds by a cyclist and thus they take risks, most of the time it pays off and the only casualty is an annoyed cyclist, something most motorists would snigger at.
Occasionally it doesn't and the result is someone dies.
To justify these risks they use crap excuses like the ones above, make us out to be the enemy and de-humanised (hence the lycra and silly hat type remarks), once that's done you can morally justify to yourself what you do to others.

The comments on that board (in fairness a lot of which are actually quite sensible) are simply examples of why things need to change out there. Nobodies life is worth shaving a few seconds off someone's journey time for.

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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby iamanidiot » 2 Mar 2010, 5:42pm

I had to stop reading, 25% of them thought that the incident was entirely the cyclists fault and that scares me. These are professional drivers.

Comments about "both of them approached the roundabout at speed so they're both to blame" - what happened to giving way to traffic from the right?

I do wonder what their opinions would have been if it was exactly the same clip but with a car instead of a cyclist.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 Mar 2010, 5:51pm

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtop ... =2&t=56091

The cyclist was going too fast????
The cyclist didn't stop for the give way line????

astonishing??
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hubgearfreak
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby hubgearfreak » 2 Mar 2010, 6:52pm

i've read the truckers rants. i woulnd't trust some of them with toys.
professionals my hat, i'm amazed & terrified at the BS they spout :shock:

vernon
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby vernon » 2 Mar 2010, 8:08pm

richardyorkshire wrote:
Does the Highway Code actually recommend a line to take through a roundabout?


You don't know your Highway Code?

Shame on you! :wink:

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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby vernon » 2 Mar 2010, 8:09pm

mark a. wrote:As far as I can tell from the grainy video, there are two lefts, a straight on (the main exit) and maybe a right turn. So he needs the 3rd exit out of 4. In a car, at that roundabout, I would probably choose the right hand lane - left hand for the first two, the right hand lane for 3rd and 4th. In a bike I would almost certainly choose the right hand lane for the reasons that EdinburghFixed has pointed out - to stop cars pulling across you when leaving at an earlier exit.


It's not the Highway Code's recommended strategy........

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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby downfader » 2 Mar 2010, 8:22pm

I will say this. Is TruckNet rhyming slang? :roll: A serious bunch of imbeciles, and shockingly there are a couple here too it seems. :roll:

Honestly, a guy nearly dies and people start picking holes in his life. I cant imagine how some of you lot ride - perhaps you'd like to film it so we can comment on you for a change? Perhaps some of you are a little in the dark as to the risks you may be putting yourselves in when you ride the way you do, or claim to. I think a little solidarity from other cyclists would actually start benefiting us in the long term, but no, we're the worst at in-fighting as a "road-group" :roll:

I will also point out its a SINGLE LANE roundabout. What is this nonsense about "take the left/middle/right lane". It doesnt exist

kwackers
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby kwackers » 2 Mar 2010, 8:25pm

vernon wrote:
mark a. wrote:As far as I can tell from the grainy video, there are two lefts, a straight on (the main exit) and maybe a right turn. So he needs the 3rd exit out of 4. In a car, at that roundabout, I would probably choose the right hand lane - left hand for the first two, the right hand lane for 3rd and 4th. In a bike I would almost certainly choose the right hand lane for the reasons that EdinburghFixed has pointed out - to stop cars pulling across you when leaving at an earlier exit.


It's not the Highway Code's recommended strategy........


There's no doubt if he'd been further left he'd be dead.

For the highway code to be any use as a guide to cycling on our roads, it really needs everyone else to be following it too.

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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby downfader » 2 Mar 2010, 8:29pm

kwackers wrote:
vernon wrote:
mark a. wrote:As far as I can tell from the grainy video, there are two lefts, a straight on (the main exit) and maybe a right turn. So he needs the 3rd exit out of 4. In a car, at that roundabout, I would probably choose the right hand lane - left hand for the first two, the right hand lane for 3rd and 4th. In a bike I would almost certainly choose the right hand lane for the reasons that EdinburghFixed has pointed out - to stop cars pulling across you when leaving at an earlier exit.


It's not the Highway Code's recommended strategy........


There's no doubt if he'd been further left he'd be dead.

For the highway code to be any use as a guide to cycling on our roads, it really needs everyone else to be following it too.


+1 a point I made on youtube today myself. And it gets countered with some prat who ends up going "its no good being right if you're dead"

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NUKe
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby NUKe » 2 Mar 2010, 9:05pm

kwackers wrote:
For the highway code to be any use as a guide to cycling on our roads, it really needs everyone else to be following it too.


No it doesn't.
This is the same excuse that motorist use for breaking speed limits.

Downfader wrote:o. I think a little solidarity from other cyclists would actually start benefiting us in the long term, but no, we're the worst at in-fighting as a "road-group" :roll:

I disagree. Its only that by discussing things in this way, that we are able to learn. By challenging we increase understanding.
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EdinburghFixed
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby EdinburghFixed » 2 Mar 2010, 9:13pm

vernon wrote:
mark a. wrote:As far as I can tell from the grainy video, there are two lefts, a straight on (the main exit) and maybe a right turn. So he needs the 3rd exit out of 4. In a car, at that roundabout, I would probably choose the right hand lane - left hand for the first two, the right hand lane for 3rd and 4th. In a bike I would almost certainly choose the right hand lane for the reasons that EdinburghFixed has pointed out - to stop cars pulling across you when leaving at an earlier exit.


It's not the Highway Code's recommended strategy........


I too thought that the HC recommended going round the outside, but they must have changed it, or it was just an urban myth.As some people seem to be confused by this (or are simply outdated) this is very important! Here is what the rule currently says:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/ wrote:Rule 77 - Roundabouts
You may feel safer walking your cycle round on the pavement or verge. If you decide to ride round keeping to the left-hand lane you should
* be aware that drivers may not easily see you
* take extra care when cycling across exits. You may need to signal right to show you are not leaving the roundabout
* watch out for vehicles crossing your path to leave or join the roundabout


You'll notice it very explicitly doesn't recommend cycling around the outside of a roundabout.

It first observes that if you're not comfortable with the road layout, you can always get off (which is always true, so no idea why they felt the need to mention it explicitly!)

Then, for those who choose to cycle around the roundabout, it adds three specific warnings for those who *choose* to use the left hand lane (the implication being that if you're not cycling around in the left hand lane, specific warnings beyond the general advice for roundabouts are not needed).

In short, saying "if you choose to go around the outside, watch out for these extra issues" is totally not the same as a recommendation that the outside be used (which is good, because it's insanely dangerous!).

The only problem with rule 77 really is that while it lists the extra hazards of using the outside lane, it doesn't explicitly warn against this outdated concept. Better wording might have been "The safest approach is generally to follow the prevailing path of traffic for your exit. If you decide to ride around keeping to the left-hand lane you should be aware of these extra hazards:" (my additions in italic)
Last edited by EdinburghFixed on 2 Mar 2010, 9:15pm, edited 1 time in total.

magnatom
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby magnatom » 2 Mar 2010, 9:14pm

I must admit that I am not a fan of solidarity for the sake of it (although I'm sure downfader didn't mean that). People challenging me in the past has helped me improve my cycling, so I welcome it. Just sometimes facts get in the way and get discarded, and then falsehoods tae on a new lease of life and become 'fact'. It really is fascinating to watch from my perspetive. Fun, no, but fascinating.

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EdinburghFixed
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby EdinburghFixed » 2 Mar 2010, 9:27pm

Magnatom, I'm sure I'm in the majority when I say that your positioning on the roundabout was flawless. I mentioned earlier that it is just by the in-laws and so I have driven it countless times in the car (not yet up to cycling through to Milngavie to visit!) so this is speaking with first-hand knowledge. If you have footage of you negotiating it as part of a traffic stream, I think that would greatly illustrate how this roundabout works for those with poor observation skills.

(As an aside, I find it bizarre that anyone thinks that a reason for piling onto a roundabout and killing someone, is that you thought they were going further round than they were. I mean really, what??? Of course, the funniest thing about this whole discussion really is that the roundabout has NO LANES anyway! :lol: )

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meic
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby meic » 2 Mar 2010, 9:41pm

I have had arguments with a few drivers who have ignored my prescence on a roundabout.
Most times i dont argue but just stop or slow down at the side of the car passing in front of me.
It is amazing how often I am accused of going "too fast", yet not surprisingly I am well below any speed limit and almost certainly slower than the cars. What they mean is that I am going faster than they would like , think or expect, which is their fault but of course that isnt possible if you are only a cyclist and should always yield to cars.

another habit that drivers have, regardless of whatsort of vehicle is on the roundabout, is to not stop at the line and to creep onto the road and fall in behind the passing vehicle as it passes.
I often do that myself, for that reason you dont go slamming on the brakes everytime a vehicle carries on past the give-way lines. If you do slow down that could be taken as an invitation to go infront.
The fact that the rider was going straight and quickly towards his exit from the roundabout gave a clear and unambiguous message to the truck driver. If the cyclist had taken early evasive measures it may have been his fault for leading the truck driver to believe he had an invitation to proceed.
Finally how can the cyclist be at fault when he DID, I repeat HE did prevent the accident from occuring despite the truck driver proceeding to drive forward and bringing his trailer over, in the full knowledge of the cyclist being in the dangerous position the truck driver had created.

At the end of that, I still bet the Police say "He missed, no action"
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Re: Worst youtube clip i've seen...

Postby downfader » 2 Mar 2010, 9:47pm

magnatom wrote:I must admit that I am not a fan of solidarity for the sake of it (although I'm sure downfader didn't mean that). People challenging me in the past has helped me improve my cycling, so I welcome it. Just sometimes facts get in the way and get discarded, and then falsehoods tae on a new lease of life and become 'fact'. It really is fascinating to watch from my perspetive. Fun, no, but fascinating.


Yeah sorry matey, that came out a bit empassioned, but I stand by the premise that if something is so very obviously wrong you dont pick holes in the victim's behaviour and use that as an excuse or a get-out-of-jail-free card. :? Which some seem to have suggested here (more so on the Trucknet forum).

I mean fair enough if you'd run a red light, or rode against traffic the wrong way around.. but you didnt. You were already on the RAB from what I could see when the driver came to the junction's giveway markings.