Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Re: Is this cycle path dangerous?
Update:
There are now parking spaces being painted along the road side of the cycle path. That settles it for me, I will not be using it.
There are now parking spaces being painted along the road side of the cycle path. That settles it for me, I will not be using it.
- Domestique
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Re: Is this cycle path dangerous?
There is quite a long thread about Southend on YACF.
Imo the seafront is fast becoming a no cycling zone. Like you I doubt very much I will be useing the path, or the seafront.
Imo the seafront is fast becoming a no cycling zone. Like you I doubt very much I will be useing the path, or the seafront.
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Re: Is this cycle path dangerous?
Clandy wrote:I live in Shoeburyness, part of the Borough of Southend. Southend was recently named one of the government's cycling demonstration towns and awarded several million pounds grant to improve cycling in the town. There have been some improvements, so far mostly cycle training initiatives in primary schools, and some hi-vis bits handed out at events in the town.
But the latest 'improvement' seems dangerous and ill-considered to say the least.
<snip>
Hi. Just been alerted to this thread. I'm the RTR rep for the area who is jumping up and down and getting suicidal about the stupidity and dangerous design of this path. Suicide is easy - I'll just use the new path.
The most frustrating thing is that we got to see the plans for the first time on Monday evening (although thanks to my constant nagging I got a sneak preview on Thursday).
To save me repeating myself, here's the YACF thread (public view, no need to register)
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31115.0
Yes it is a two way cycle track.
Yes the road carriageway is being reduced to 3.25m (which Cycling England and the DfT say "should be avoided, as car drivers may attempt to overtake even though there is insufficient room to do so safely").
Yes the path is only 2.5m wide BEFORE the edge paint goes down, yet the guidelines state "The minimum recommended width for a two way cycle track is 3 metres. If these widths cannot be realised, the facility may become difficult for some people to use".
The cycle track is about two inches higher than the road.
If a family group go cycling along there in an eastbound direction then they have to try to fit between the oncoming cars and cyclists. If the kid wobbles into the road they cannot wobble back onto the cycle track.
Re: Is this cycle path dangerous?
Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on Southend seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
What a waste of space! Literally too, as the combined width of existing prom and cycle farcility could have been used far more sensibly
"42"
Re: Is this cycle path dangerous?
Clandy wrote:Took a ride eastwards along the new path at about 4.20pm today. I won't be using it again. Bear in mind when watching the video that this isn't even a particularly busy day on Southend seafront. Come summertime this path will be sheer murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlrVSRBaDQc
Well, it convinced me; I'll avoid it too!
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Now the road is so much narrower I wonder if they'll still hold a Tour Series round here this year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misOf3rEtXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misOf3rEtXE
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Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Wow, that is one badly thought out cycle path.
I don't blame any cyclist in S-O-S for not using it.
I don't blame any cyclist in S-O-S for not using it.
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Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Clandy wrote:Now the road is so much narrower I wonder if they'll still hold a Tour Series round here this year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misOf3rEtXE
At the cycle group meetings the Council have already said that the Tour won't be returning.
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
That's a real shame. It was great fun last year.
- EdinburghFixed
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- Joined: 24 Jul 2008, 7:03pm
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Things like this make me wish there was some way of having a design condemned as unsafe by an expert body like.. oh, a national cyclists' organisation.
How about it, CTC? The RAC / AA are always quick to speak out against disruption to motorists, after all.
Local riders might be interested to look into the chap who successfully sued following an accident on a drain cover on the path through Edinburgh's Holyrood park. If I remember rightly, the court held it as obvious that the design would pose a danger of such an accident and he won compensation.
How about it, CTC? The RAC / AA are always quick to speak out against disruption to motorists, after all.
Local riders might be interested to look into the chap who successfully sued following an accident on a drain cover on the path through Edinburgh's Holyrood park. If I remember rightly, the court held it as obvious that the design would pose a danger of such an accident and he won compensation.
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
EdinburghFixed wrote:Things like this make me wish there was some way of having a design condemned as unsafe by an expert body like.. oh, a national cyclists' organisation.
How about it, CTC? The RAC / AA are always quick to speak out against disruption to motorists, after all.
Local riders might be interested to look into the chap who successfully sued following an accident on a drain cover on the path through Edinburgh's Holyrood park. If I remember rightly, the court held it as obvious that the design would pose a danger of such an accident and he won compensation.
Sounds like the kind of thing the CTC ought to be doing...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
- EdinburghFixed
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- Joined: 24 Jul 2008, 7:03pm
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Also, if I'm not wrong this path is an NCN route, right?
So, it should be possible for Sustrans to put pressure on the council by revoking that designation on this stretch and advising that cyclists make alternative arrangements (although I suspect pigs will fly before Sustrans advise people off any sort of facility onto any sort of road).
That would make a terribly embarrassing headline.
So, it should be possible for Sustrans to put pressure on the council by revoking that designation on this stretch and advising that cyclists make alternative arrangements (although I suspect pigs will fly before Sustrans advise people off any sort of facility onto any sort of road).
That would make a terribly embarrassing headline.
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
Well there's an article in the local paper today and the Cllr responsible for Transport and Planning in Southend says, "I am confident it's safe and will be even safer when it's complete in about six weeks.
There will be a raised line, like at the edge of a Motorway, to mark the barrier between the road and cycle path and signs for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists warning them it's a cycle path."
A raised white line. Well that's all ok then, that'll stop children wobbling into the traffic and cars swerving onto the cycle lane!
Here's the news story: http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8091356 ... t_safe___/
There will be a raised line, like at the edge of a Motorway, to mark the barrier between the road and cycle path and signs for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists warning them it's a cycle path."
A raised white line. Well that's all ok then, that'll stop children wobbling into the traffic and cars swerving onto the cycle lane!
Here's the news story: http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8091356 ... t_safe___/
Re: Southend-on-Sea's new cycle path: dangerous design?
I have now had a reply from Southend Borough Council addressing, but not allaying, my concerns:
Please see the officers response below which I trust addresses your concerns.
Anna Waite
Cllr Anna Waite, Southend Borough Council
-----Original Message-----
From: Mehmet Mazhar
To: CllrWaite; Zulfiqar Ali
Sent: Wed Apr 07 16:07:40 2010
Subject: RE: New cycle path west of Southend pier. SERIOUS safety concerns. [Virus Control Checked]
Dear Anna,
Please find my draft reply to Mr ******'s email below. Unfortunately my system cannot see his address. Could you forward it to me please so that I may send him the reply, or alternatively forward it on please. Thank you.
Dear Mr ******,
Thank you for your email and for bringing your concerns to our attention. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Before replying to each of your points in turn, I would like to emphasise the new cycle route along the Western Esplanade is still under construction and has not been formally opened. Although some cyclists including you are using the track there are a number of features that have yet to be installed before the scheme goes ‘live’, in particular road markings and signage. Once the scheme is completed in its entirety, between the Pier and Chalkwell Avenue, there will be a formal opening ceremony and the enforcement of the traffic regulations will then commence. This will deal with a large proportion of your concerns. However, I will now reply to each of your points in turn:
1. As I have stated, the cycle track is still under construction. At the edge of the finished path there will be a raised rib white line, which will be 20mm in height. This will divert cyclist away from the edge of carriageway. It should also be noted that vehicles are now moving through the area at reduced speeds as the recent changes have brought in a natural traffic calming effect as a by-product of the scheme.
2. The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing.
3. The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent.
4. Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN.
5. There will be marking on the cycle track, which will clearly identify it as a two-way cycle track, not for pedestrian use. Pedestrians currently cross the road between the parking area and the Esplanade. All road users, including cyclists and pedestrians are required to exercise due care and attention to themselves and other road users. In reality most pedestrians will probably wait until cyclists have passed, before crossing.
I would like to thank you for the video link you provided. It’s encouraging to see that cyclists are already using and enjoying the new cycle track, even in its unfinished state. Once it is fully complete, I have no doubt that it will be a much used and enjoyed facility by the community.
The introduction of a dedicated two-way cycle track along the Western Esplanade is a positive approach to the issue of providing a combined off-road leisure and commuter route, which reallocates road space within existing constraints and provides extra width to cater for the many cyclists that ride on the promenade and along the Western Esplanade.
The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to.
Having said this, I would like to assure you we have taken your concerns seriously and I would like to reassure you that and that as part of our design processes we monitoring this scheme after its implementation, to ensure that it is successful. At the same time as the scheme is formally opened we will be offering training and advice to cyclists by our trained team of cycling officers.
In the meantime, if you have any further queries regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Mehmet
Mehmet Mazhar
Interim Group Manager
Traffic and Highways
So it appears to me they are putting all their trust in some painted white lines to prevent collisions between cyclists and car doors, and to stop younger cyclists straying off the path into oncoming traffic.
Please see the officers response below which I trust addresses your concerns.
Anna Waite
Cllr Anna Waite, Southend Borough Council
-----Original Message-----
From: Mehmet Mazhar
To: CllrWaite; Zulfiqar Ali
Sent: Wed Apr 07 16:07:40 2010
Subject: RE: New cycle path west of Southend pier. SERIOUS safety concerns. [Virus Control Checked]
Dear Anna,
Please find my draft reply to Mr ******'s email below. Unfortunately my system cannot see his address. Could you forward it to me please so that I may send him the reply, or alternatively forward it on please. Thank you.
Dear Mr ******,
Thank you for your email and for bringing your concerns to our attention. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Before replying to each of your points in turn, I would like to emphasise the new cycle route along the Western Esplanade is still under construction and has not been formally opened. Although some cyclists including you are using the track there are a number of features that have yet to be installed before the scheme goes ‘live’, in particular road markings and signage. Once the scheme is completed in its entirety, between the Pier and Chalkwell Avenue, there will be a formal opening ceremony and the enforcement of the traffic regulations will then commence. This will deal with a large proportion of your concerns. However, I will now reply to each of your points in turn:
1. As I have stated, the cycle track is still under construction. At the edge of the finished path there will be a raised rib white line, which will be 20mm in height. This will divert cyclist away from the edge of carriageway. It should also be noted that vehicles are now moving through the area at reduced speeds as the recent changes have brought in a natural traffic calming effect as a by-product of the scheme.
2. The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing.
3. The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent.
4. Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN.
5. There will be marking on the cycle track, which will clearly identify it as a two-way cycle track, not for pedestrian use. Pedestrians currently cross the road between the parking area and the Esplanade. All road users, including cyclists and pedestrians are required to exercise due care and attention to themselves and other road users. In reality most pedestrians will probably wait until cyclists have passed, before crossing.
I would like to thank you for the video link you provided. It’s encouraging to see that cyclists are already using and enjoying the new cycle track, even in its unfinished state. Once it is fully complete, I have no doubt that it will be a much used and enjoyed facility by the community.
The introduction of a dedicated two-way cycle track along the Western Esplanade is a positive approach to the issue of providing a combined off-road leisure and commuter route, which reallocates road space within existing constraints and provides extra width to cater for the many cyclists that ride on the promenade and along the Western Esplanade.
The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to.
Having said this, I would like to assure you we have taken your concerns seriously and I would like to reassure you that and that as part of our design processes we monitoring this scheme after its implementation, to ensure that it is successful. At the same time as the scheme is formally opened we will be offering training and advice to cyclists by our trained team of cycling officers.
In the meantime, if you have any further queries regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Mehmet
Mehmet Mazhar
Interim Group Manager
Traffic and Highways
So it appears to me they are putting all their trust in some painted white lines to prevent collisions between cyclists and car doors, and to stop younger cyclists straying off the path into oncoming traffic.