Shoulder check ---> Overtake?

[gentlegreen]

There are of course, always the alert drivers who are switched on.

On my way home from work a few weeks back I looked back over my shoulder to prepare for a right turn. The driver behind me slowed and gave way to me - even before I'd signalled.

She got a massive thumbs-up on the way across.

Unfortunately they're rare.

Depressing, isn't it.

I generally try to be "in their way" very much in advance, then stick my arm out as if daring them to break it - or sometimes like a karate punch ... though it often turns into a thumbs-up - either deserved or "rhetorical" ...

[stoobs]

And Rule 212 of the HC says:

When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.

I think that must be a typo - when reading between the lines, it clearly means "Once the cyclist knows you're there, you may pass as quickly and closely as you wish, as the responsibility for safety is now entirely theirs"

Oh yes, shame on you, tc, for misinterpreting the friendly and correct use of a car horn in your earlier post!

[Erudin]

Thanks for all the replies. I do think I need a mirror really, but I've been put off by the complications of drop bars with bar end shifters. I'll bite the bullet soon!

I very rarely miss a car approaching from behind, and when I'm driving it never really occurs to me that cyclists might not know I'm there. Hopefully I overtake wide and slow enough that it wouldn't take them by surprise too much, but it's something to think about I suppose. I've heard about this 'tooting on approach' thing that is popular on the continent . . . it's a pity that the horn is seen/used in a strictly antisocial manner in the UK and elsewhere.

Fitted a Bike Eye mirror (link) to a bike I've built for doing CTC group rides with, was very easy to fit, just zip ties onto the frame and it is out of the way so does not get knocked. Tried it out on a short group ride yesterday and it was great, could see cars and riders coming up behind easily.

[drossall]

Franklin advises either a longer look back to establish eye contact (but it doesn't work for me), or looking back discretely -- turning your head as little as possible.

Works for me. I'm somewhat of the view that making any road user feel watched makes him or her slightly more careful. Or maybe it's just that looking back very obviously makes them assume I'm going to swerve across the road into a driveway opposite...

[gentlegreen]

Works for me. I'm somewhat of the view that making any road user feel watched makes him or her slightly more careful. ..

That's me too.

I'm the same with cars pulling up at mini roundabouts to my left without going into neutral and engaging neutral.
I give them full eye contact and 4x4s especially that cross the line see me going very close to their bumper ..

I also have a "mad" face - and I have once in a while done the Maori tongue thing - perhaps inspired by the markings on my mudguard. (I could probably pass for a rugby player in the dark)

Mind you I sometimes as a pedestrian stand in the middle of my street and bring rat-runners to a stop...
I stopped one tonight and reminded the driver that the whole area is going 20mph shortly. ( )

[Vorpal]

A few weeks ago, I was taking my kids to the zoo, which means pulling a trailer with 4 or 5 stones worth of kids + accessories up a small hill on a busy B road (here, for those who like links http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 07231&z=17 ) then turning right into the zoo. Before signalling the turn, and pulling out to the middle/right of the lane, I looked over my shoulder and made eye contact with the driver of an estate behind me. He seemed patient and had followed me slowly some way up the hill. I came to a stop because of oncoming traffic. When it was clear, I started to make my turn, doing the last over-the-shoulder check for overtaking vehicles, and he was. I braked, and he passed within a few inches of my front tyre.

Why? If he'd waited a couple of seconds, he could have gone around me (safely!) on the other side. What was that couple of seconds compared to the minutes it took me to get up the hill? Maybe he thought since I was no longer signalling a right turn, I had changed my mind? Maybe, no longer held in place by my evil eye (I was concentrating on getting started and making the turn), he was suddenly overwhelmed by his impatience. Grrrr.

[Edwards]

Franklin advises either a longer look back to establish eye contact (but it doesn't work for me),

I can not get my head to turn that far around. Do some have the necks of Owls.

[kwackers]

Franklin advises either a longer look back to establish eye contact (but it doesn't work for me),

I can not get my head to turn that far around. Do some have the necks of Owls.

You need to twist your entire body too. Doesn't work for me, simply because all I can see is a reflection of the sky in the windscreen. (Perhaps you need polarised glasses too...)

[Edwards]

snibgo wrote:
Franklin advises either a longer look back to establish eye contact (but it doesn't work for me),


I can not get my head to turn that far around. Do some have the necks of Owls.

You need to twist your entire body too.

That would mean I would have to let go of the handlebars. Yes it may be possible but not without risking pulling out in front of the car. Or is this what is meant by a deliberate wobble

[snibgo]

That would mean I would have to let go of the handlebars.

Franklin does suggest this (p62), and I can see this could be combined with what he later calls IIRC a "half-right signal".

[kwackers]

Franklin advises either a longer look back to establish eye contact (but it doesn't work for me),

I can not get my head to turn that far around. Do some have the necks of Owls.

When did Franklin write this bit? Car windscreens are much flatter these days than they used to be. I wonder if it's as relevant (like I said, all I can ever see is a reflection).

[snibgo]

It depends on the lighting. I can often see faces and even establish eye contact. Trouble is, they overtake anyway. Perhaps they mistake my snarl for something friendlier.

[zenzinnia]

On my predominantly rural commute, I quite often find myself being followed patiently by a car driver where it isn't safe to overtake. I look over my shoulder to see how far away they are, if they're pulling a trailer, if there are any other cars etc. And then . . . instantly . . . they overtake! It's as if they treat the shoulder check as in invitation to overtake, without using their own judgement.

Is this genuine, or is it just in my head? And how can I stop it happening?!

I don't seem to have this problem but then, if i know there is another vehicle behind me, I don't look over my shoulder to confirm it or check it out. I feel it's up to them to deal with me. I carry on cycling normally. if there is a tight bend/ hill brow etc where I can see better I will either show them the palm of my hand in a 'no' signal or, if the road is clear, give a thumbs up across my back - this seems to be appciated (although when a big lorry gave me a big blow on his horn in thanks it frightened the life out of the friend who was cycling ahead of me and didn't know I was giving helpful signals). I only look back if I am going to move for, say, a right turn. Looking back always makes me veer right a bit anyway - best to be avoided.

[PW]

I've made use of this one for years, it can be useful if you want to control the place and time of an overtake. I'd say a backward glance is taken as an invitation by over 90% of motorists. The cure is to have a mirror, monitor with that and look back when you want the car to go.

[thirdcrank]

I'm not one for signalling that it's ok to overtake, but I've very occasionally signalled to try to stop somebody doing it, most memorably here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 00.84,,0,5

It's even narrower than it looks in streetview.

I could hear drivers approaching both ways at some speed. I rather frantically signalled to the driver behind that he should pull in behind me but he used his superior judgment as to an appropriate speed (and his round-the-corner vision, I suppose) and shot straight by and out of sight, although not out of earshot. Surprisingly, nobody was injured and I decided 'not to get involved.'

(And before anybody asks, I'm no suicide pilot so I'd not ride primary just to save a driver from their own poor judgment.)