Policeman told off Advanced Stop Line infringer

[basingstoke123]

I sometimes wonder if the dangers of an ASL far outweigh any benefits.

To make use of an ASL safely, you need to understand the phasing and timings of the traffic lights, which should not be the case.

If there is only a short queue ahead of you, the ASL offers little benefit compared with taking a primary position in you lane behind the vehicle already in the queue.

If it's a longer queue (when getting to the front would offer an advantage), will you have time to get to the front before the lights change to green? And can you be certain that the first vehicle has not stopped within the ASL, giving you nowhere to go, when you get there?

Feeder lanes are usually on the left, frequently too narrow, and positively encourage dangerous undertaking. I prefer to overtake, but technically, you aren't supposed to enter an ASL from the 'safe' side! Have any cyclists been caught for entering an ASL by other than the official feeder lane? I guess unlikely, as drivers don't seem to get into trouble for going into an ASL, and common sense says that an ASL is there for cyclists to use.

Experienced cyclists will know all this, but those less experienced are likely to get caught out by something that is supposed to help.

[Jonty]

I sometimes wonder if the dangers of an ASL far outweigh any benefits.

To make use of an ASL safely, you need to understand the phasing and timings of the traffic lights, which should not be the case.

If there is only a short queue ahead of you, the ASL offers little benefit compared with taking a primary position in you lane behind the vehicle already in the queue.

If it's a longer queue (when getting to the front would offer an advantage), will you have time to get to the front before the lights change to green? And can you be certain that the first vehicle has not stopped within the ASL, giving you nowhere to go, when you get there?

Feeder lanes are usually on the left, frequently too narrow, and positively encourage dangerous undertaking. I prefer to overtake, but technically, you aren't supposed to enter an ASL from the 'safe' side! Have any cyclists been caught for entering an ASL by other than the official feeder lane? I guess unlikely, as drivers don't seem to get into trouble for going into an ASL, and common sense says that an ASL is there for cyclists to use.

Experienced cyclists will know all this, but those less experienced are likely to get caught out by something that is supposed to help.

See my post above. Experienced cyclists can be caught out as well.
jonty

[The Mechanic]

what about when there is an ASL but no cycle lane or it is blocked by the queing traffic. The are some junctions like this in Aberdeen

[gaz]

What about where there's an advisory cycle lane past the stop line but no ASL?

Hard to imagine? Google streetview.

It's the worst bit of missing paint I've ever seen. Clearly the white stop line should go all the way to the kerb but "white paint man" stopped short.

I have no idea how many cyclists RLJ here as a result of the poor markings but I'd imagine it's a considerable number. There are plenty of crap proper ASLs in the area.

[fimm]

What I would like to know is, why did the Powers That Be put in the bit about a cyclist can only enter the ASL via the cycle lane? What were they trying to achieve?

(Oh, and can you imagine the reaction from a following motorist if you stopped (on your bike) at the first line rather than entering an ASL illegally?)

[iviehoff]

What I would like to know is, why did the Powers That Be put in the bit about a cyclist can only enter the ASL via the cycle lane?

This is not much different from the question, why do we have so many unhelpful and badly designed cycle facilities in this country. I could rant and rant all sorts of reasons for that, but we are getting rather off topic.

[anothereye]

What about where there's an advisory cycle lane past the stop line but no ASL?

Hard to imagine? Google streetview.

It's the worst bit of missing paint I've ever seen. Clearly the white stop line should go all the way to the kerb but "white paint man" stopped short.

I have no idea how many cyclists RLJ here as a result of the poor markings but I'd imagine it's a considerable number. There are plenty of crap proper ASLs in the area.

It seems well intended; cyclists can pass through the red light whilst traffic is joining the road from the right, no danger if the cyclists stay in the cycle lane and motor vehicles keep out of it.
BUT; the cycle lane after the stop line should have a solid white line (even better, a curb for the length of the junction) and it should be wider.

[Pete Owens]

What about where there's an advisory cycle lane past the stop line but no ASL?

Hard to imagine? Google streetview.

It's the worst bit of missing paint I've ever seen. Clearly the white stop line should go all the way to the kerb but "white paint man" stopped short.

I have no idea how many cyclists RLJ here as a result of the poor markings but I'd imagine it's a considerable number. There are plenty of crap proper ASLs in the area.

Actually, the only problem with that layout is the fact that the cycle is lane much too narrow (like just about all cycle lanes). There is no need to stop cyclists in order to let traffic join from the right.

I would much prefer that to the usual arrangement for cycle by-passes where the route hops on to the pavement to pass the lights then beck into the flow of traffic.

[Pete Owens]

Feeder lanes are usually on the left, frequently too narrow, and positively encourage dangerous undertaking. I prefer to overtake, but technically, you aren't supposed to enter an ASL from the 'safe' side! Have any cyclists been caught for entering an ASL by other than the official feeder lane? I guess unlikely, as drivers don't seem to get into trouble for going into an ASL, and common sense says that an ASL is there for cyclists to use.

The best ASLs are ones with no feeder lanes at all. This means that novice cyclists are not lured into undertaking and there is more room to filter to the right of the queue.

Now, I know that this means that technically by the letter of the law that it is then illegal to use the ASL in the way intended. But, it is so obviously within the spirit of the facility that cyclists are meant to use it that I would be astounded if any policeman would take it upon themselves to take issue with any cyclist doing so. It isn't as if they are renouned for prosecuting motorists driving into the box on red - and I doubt that many of them are actually aware of the precise details of the silly rules.

[thirdcrank]

I doubt if we will ever find out. but if the arrangement does not conform with the regulations, then there is an argument that it is not lawfully erected and therefore unenforceable. You can never be sure. There was a bit of a rash of loophole defences some years ago and the then Lord Chief Justice, Lord Widgery gave them short shrift. ( Is there such a thing as 'long shrift'? ) One was where the lamp posts less than 200 yards apart (which are the trigger for a 30 mph limit without a TRO) were further apart than that. I may be flatering myself that my memory is better than it is but IIRC one gap was 287 yards. Anyway, be ruled that the principle of de minimis non curat lex (the law is not concerned with trifles) applied and dismissed the appeal. There was another, which I think was also Widgery, about the colour of the suppost pole of a sign, which should be grey. (I'm not sure about the detail but I think it still had the black and white bands painted on street furniture in the WWII blackout.) More recently, two police officers in North Yorkshire successfully defended speeding prosecutions because the signs with the speed limit and the camera logo did not conform and that was only a matter of the border around the sign and I don't think the prosecution appealed so there was never a definitive decision IIRC.

(Legal eagles may point out that if the Widgery Report into 'Bloody Sunday' had been a bit more detailed, we might not have just shelled out £100 million for another.)

[timbob]

How do you report cars and moter bikes in ASL??

[meic]

If you read all that is written on the subject in this forum, you will find that it isnt a crime for them to be stood in that area.
They have to have entered it when the red light was showing. Then it has to be proven.