Horn or not?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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meic
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby meic » 3 Feb 2011, 5:00pm

KTM690 wrote:
kwackers wrote:
KTM690 wrote:Using a horn would be politer than bashing the van that your trying to illegally undertake.

Less likely to earn you a kicking as well.

No offence, but I'd rather trust the police and courts judgement than yours (particularly as they have ALL the facts). With that in mind, which one of the two was prosecuted? Ah, yes. The van driver. 5 points too!
Seems it's you against the justice system then.


Yes and every cyclist hating, gorilla of a van driver, will already be aware of that BBC video. Resulting in their having a very low threshold for battering a cyclist in a similar situation and nicking their camera!

Is it worth the risk of trying to cut up the inside of a vehicle indicating left and then bashing his van?

Would it not be better to avoid confrontation and remain in the queue for the junction or wait untill it's safe to make progress?

You ride a motorbike? Would you try the same move on a moped?


You keep on asking this loaded question and keep on ignoring the answer.

IT IS NOT ALL RIGHT TO OVER OR UNDERTAKE A VEHICLE ON THE SIDE THAT IT IS INDICATING.

Excuse me for shouting but you appear to be deaf on this point.
Yma o Hyd

kwackers
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby kwackers » 3 Feb 2011, 5:15pm

KTM690 wrote:Yes and every cyclist hating, gorilla of a van driver, will already be aware of that BBC video. Resulting in their having a very low threshold for battering a cyclist in a similar situation and nicking their camera!

You really believe that's going to happen? I doubt it. Firstly the camera doesn't have to be so obvious and second you put yourself in a far worse position, ime people are all mouth but soon back down.
Pointing out the camera to folk ime has exactly the opposite effect, they calm down and usually go away. TBH you're talking about a subject you know nothing of and simply presuming things that don't happen in the real world.

Having said that, I wouldn't put it past someone who'd knocked off and possibly killed a cyclist and who was prepared to do a runner to check for a camera, but even if they removed it the cyclist is hardly in a worse position than they would have been without it. (That's if they felt the risk of going back to check was worth it of course.)

Is it worth the risk of trying to cut up the inside of a vehicle indicating left and then bashing his van?

Would it not be better to avoid confrontation and remain in the queue for the junction or wait untill it's safe to make progress?

When you're in that sort of situation it's not possible to sit at a computer and analyse all the options. Firstly you have to figure out something is actually happening - sitting at a computer later you *know* something is happening immediately, don't underestimate how long it takes to figure it out.

Quite probably the cyclist could have done things differently, but unlike you he doesn't have the time to sit and analyse his options so why not ask him? (I believe he posts on other forums - in fact I remember reading an entire thread about this with him answering others questions)
However I appreciate you prefer victim blame believing no doubt that you'd never be in that position.
Fortunately the courts saw differently and recognised the blatant disregard of another persons safety and aggressive nature of the driver and dealt with it. IMO they should have dealt with it more severely, despite the footage the court couldn't agree that a punch was thrown so he escaped being charged with assault. It'd serve him right to have been sent down for a couple of months.

You ride a motorbike? Would you try the same move on a moped?

I've never been in a position like that on my motorbike (plus I'd never be seen dead on a moped). As I said above, until it actually happens to you, then in reality you don't know. No amount of keyboard posturing can prepare you for the actual thing.

KTM690
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby KTM690 » 3 Feb 2011, 6:29pm

meic wrote:
KTM690 wrote:
kwackers wrote:No offence, but I'd rather trust the police and courts judgement than yours (particularly as they have ALL the facts). With that in mind, which one of the two was prosecuted? Ah, yes. The van driver. 5 points too!
Seems it's you against the justice system then.


Yes and every cyclist hating, gorilla of a van driver, will already be aware of that BBC video. Resulting in their having a very low threshold for battering a cyclist in a similar situation and nicking their camera!

Is it worth the risk of trying to cut up the inside of a vehicle indicating left and then bashing his van?

Would it not be better to avoid confrontation and remain in the queue for the junction or wait untill it's safe to make progress?

You ride a motorbike? Would you try the same move on a moped?


You keep on asking this loaded question and keep on ignoring the answer.

IT IS NOT ALL RIGHT TO OVER OR UNDERTAKE A VEHICLE ON THE SIDE THAT IT IS INDICATING.

Excuse me for shouting but you appear to be deaf on this point.


WHY DO SOME CYCLISTS BELIEVE THAT UNDERTAKING IS ALL RIGHT THEN?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Feb 2011, 6:41pm

Mick F wrote:Some years ago, I was going down a narrow shared-use path on my way from the Forth Bridge to Edinburgh - cyclist aren't allowed on the A90.

There's two ladies - of a certain age - walking two abreast ahead of me and I'm approaching from their rear. I ring my bell.
No reaction.
I ring again, getting nearer and nearer.
No reaction.
I'm five yards behind them, and ring, ring, RING.
No reaction. They continue chatting without a care in the world!
I basically stop behind them and say, "Excuse me please."
Old as they were, they jumped out of their skin! Apologies all round, and I left them with smiles!

I wonder if I'd had an Airzound? ............


Its called the "Funky Pedestrian" and is very funny!

In a similar vein, two chavettes side by side on an off road facility, the reply to "excuse me was "please remove your homorable self from our presence" (For crossword fans (4,3))

AirZOund is absolutely justified in these cases

As for on the road, it is not a full or nothing tool, and can be moderated, it is also not suitable in all moments, but can work well. The best examples are as a maneouvre starts - an audible warning lets them know you are there very effectively!

Mine has successfully prevented many a close overtake, or p ull out at a junction.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Feb 2011, 6:43pm

KTM690 wrote:Using a horn would be politer than bashing the van that your trying to illegally undertake.

Less likely to earn you a kicking as well.


Is this on YouTube, or can you give us a link?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Feb 2011, 6:47pm

KTM690 wrote:
WHY DO SOME CYCLISTS BELIEVE THAT UNDERTAKING IS ALL RIGHT THEN?


Depends on the circumstances - the problem is that many road users seem to think that if you have two lanes they can use both of them, if there were two lanes and you were on the inside lane, with the traffic in the outside lane, would you wait and stop until the outside lane starts moving again?

MartinC
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby MartinC » 3 Feb 2011, 7:19pm

KTM690 wrote:WHY DO SOME CYCLISTS BELIEVE THAT UNDERTAKING IS ALL RIGHT THEN?


You could always read the relevant posts, some of them explain the various circumstances that apply to filtering vey well.

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meic
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby meic » 3 Feb 2011, 7:26pm

WHY DO SOME CYCLISTS BELIEVE THAT UNDERTAKING IS ALL RIGHT THEN?

Because the vehicle isnt indicating left. I dont do it myself, not much traffic here.
Although if they DO indicate left I will happily overtake on the right.
Yma o Hyd

wyadvd
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby wyadvd » 3 Feb 2011, 8:28pm

i have an air zound and I use mine only once usually on my commute as a routine regardless of visible traffic here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie= ... 6,,0,-7.06

I am going up seamark road, and traverse the 90mph a299 exit. I sound my air zound continuously as I go round the roundabout (in John franklin's advised position away in the centre of the roundabout) everysingle day. It stops thundering lorries and vehicles of all sorts from traversing the roundabout at 70MPH into my path. I signal left with thumbs up to vehicles that wait for me to pass.

Its worked so far.

Occasionally use it on the lanes at the moment jokers try to overtake me on blind corners when I have seen an oncoming car that they evidently haven't That stops em too.

Edwards
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Edwards » 3 Feb 2011, 8:43pm

Am I missing something? I the video mentioned the van was the one doing the overtaking and then cut in. The van came from behind the cyclist.
So just how is it the cyclists fault in this circumstance. Am I missing something.

If a cyclist does indeed go down the inside of any vehicle they then put themselves in a position of vulnerability and I do not believe most right minded cyclists do encourage such actions.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

Malaconotus
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Malaconotus » 3 Feb 2011, 9:34pm

Edwards wrote:Am I missing something? I the video mentioned the van was the one doing the overtaking and then cut in. The van came from behind the cyclist.
So just how is it the cyclists fault in this circumstance. Am I missing something.


EDIT: to remove comment which I now understand broke forum rules. Apologies.

Graham
Last edited by Malaconotus on 3 Feb 2011, 11:52pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve Kish
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Steve Kish » 3 Feb 2011, 10:53pm

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the obvious third alternative - front brake blocks toed out. :mrgreen:
Old enough to know better but too young to care.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby Cunobelin » 4 Feb 2011, 6:48am

Or....


Image

byegad
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby byegad » 4 Feb 2011, 8:48am

OT. I use an Air Zound, well two, each trike has one. They allow me to toot in reply to friendly toots and waves from passing motorists AND, maybe twice a year give a long loud blast to wake up a driver about to put me in danger, the last time I used one in anger a driver was about to turn right into a side road and incidentally drive into me, I was riding along the main road in the opposite direction. The resulting look of horror on his face as he woke up and braked was priceless. but it avoided a nasty accident with me in the starring role!
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

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gaz545
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Re: Horn or not?

Postby gaz545 » 4 Feb 2011, 2:06pm

I posted on my blog a few weeks ago about how bicycle bells are often particularly useless. Espcially against motorists and pedestrians with iPod's.
For some reason bikes are sold with bells, but as a commuter, they are useless, i rarely find an occasion where i think a bell would be better than talking or shouting. I can regulate my voice and use it in a fashion which would be polite.

I also have an airzound, i've installed it under the hoods on my bike, so i can brake and set of off at the same time. Some have said that they don't think it works against motorists, perhaps you should try a better air horn.
As i have no trouble warning other road users of my presence with it.