Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

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irc
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby irc » 29 Nov 2011, 5:57am

pete75 wrote:
irc wrote:
Ian Raleigh wrote:Just read this in our local paper and it seems the local Police force are out in force to catch the driver.

Shame they can't do the same for the 'everyday' ped' / biker :roll:

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/cyclis ... _1_4008546


So it's being investigated by a part of the traffic dept and there has been a press release done. Just like any other hit and run RTA involving serious injuries in my experience.



Actually it's being investigated by CID according to the story linked to.


Actually it's not. The DS is attached to the Crash Investigation Team. According to this link.

http://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/ap ... e_forward/

Just because a detective is involved doesn't turn it into a CID enquiry. Seems sensible to have a detective or two working with traffic for some enquiries.
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Nov 2011, 9:04am

hubgearfreak wrote: ... TC, i'm always fascinated by your tales of policing, but the response to damage to a garden wall isn't comparable to seriously injured people


Which is why I tried to make it clear in my post that that the two were were not the same:-
thirdcrank wrote: .... This was damage only, and relatively minor at that, so not the type of thing we have been discussing above. ....

On a slightly different point, I've suggested more than once before that it's because the police no longer deal with all the minor bumps that driving standards have deteriorated right across the board, to the detriment of vulnerable road users. Of course, it's not quite as easy as I imply. I'll offer another bit of memory lane I'll hope will also interst you. "When I was a lad" I b egan my career in the Leedas South Division - broadly, Leeds 10 and 11. We had a duplicated type-written list (who remembers typewriters and duplicators? :roll: ) of garages etc., within the Division, running to three or four pages, including everywhere from posh main dealerships to one-man outfits under a railway arch. Sometimes, hardly a day seemed to pass without some PC in a quiet village sending a telex requesting checks at all garages following some minor damage-only bump where the owner of a parked car had returned to find slight damage. Sometimes, there might be several of these enquiries running at the same time. I only mention this because in the case which led to this thread, I see the press release says something on the lines that "we are urging garages to come forward..." My reading of that is no so many active enquiries are being made as the size and tone of the press coverage might imply.

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Si
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby Si » 29 Nov 2011, 12:45pm

Ah, some, more poetic than I, might comment upon the seemingly heady aroma of axes (personal for the use of) grinding away prevalent on this thread :lol:

I see that in answer to my question there have been no cases presented that show the force in question has treated a similar incident, where the victim was not a cyclist, in any other way.

I take on board the tales of personal disappointment with the police's response to incidents that have happened to some posters on this board, and I do not doubt for one moment that such incidents did occur or that more could have been done. However, I do not see how this justifies accusations of the police only looking after their own in this case. No direct link - just as, I'm sure, we'd refute accusations that any of us are criminals and law breakers because the accuser has seen some cyclist somewhere jumping a red light, riding on the pavement, running over a granny, etc. Likewise, I'm sure that on some forums out there there are many reports of the police wasting so much of their time by prosecuting 'law-abiding' drivers for offences caused by some other road user's demands for respect on the roads (paid for by motorist's Road Tax).

But what it all comes down to in the end is some poor chap being the victim of a hit and run. Hopefully, his being a copper will not preclude us from having sympathy with him will it? I would hate this thread to approach the position where catalogues of ill-treatment by the police lead some to view this thread as saying that he deserved because he was a copper - that would be most regrettable.

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby hubgearfreak » 29 Nov 2011, 3:44pm

Si wrote:Hopefully, his being a copper will not preclude us from having sympathy with him will it?


certainly not. i'm sure we all hope that they catch the lowlife that drove off.

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby reohn2 » 29 Nov 2011, 3:49pm

Si
What I would like to see is the same level of attention given to all complaints.
Thats not to say that more attention will be given to this case,I'd be surpirsed if it weren't but people should expect and get a decent level of policing for all,unfortunately thats not the case.
The abismal level of policing during last summer's riots in London is classic case of how people when they see they can get away with crime it mushrooms.
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby swansonj » 29 Nov 2011, 4:50pm

I, by contrast, do want the police to devote more effort to cases involving fellow police officers.

My reasoning is thus. Someday, any one of us may be in a position where we desperately need a police officer to put their own safety in jeopardy to protect us. I want that police officer to know that every other police officer is going to help them. That if they need to call for urgent assistance, all other officers in the vicinity will drop what they are doing; that if they need an ambulance, their colleagues will close every road necessary to give the ambulance a free run; and if they are the victim of an assault, their colleagues will pull out every stop to track down the perpetrator. It seems to me that only if the officer has that assurance can we as a society reasonably ask them to do the things we do ask them to on our behalf and in order to preserve the civilised society that is in all of our interests.

Of course, ideally, they would pull out every stop to track down every perpetrator. But we all know that ain't going to happen in a world of finite resources. So I will happilly settle for them prioritising the support and protection of their fellow officers.

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby AlbionLass » 29 Nov 2011, 6:43pm


thirdcrank
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Nov 2011, 7:41pm

I see that one of the grounds for the arrest is said to be failing to report a crime. Things have changed since I retired. :roll: (I checked the Notts Police website and that's what it says there as well.)

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby De Sisti » 29 Nov 2011, 8:11pm

swansonj wrote:..... Someday, any one of us may be in a position where we desperately
need a police officer to put their own safety in jeopardy to protect us.


That's not going to happen. Health and Safety doctrine will prevent it.

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Nov 2011, 9:50pm

swansonj wrote: I, by contrast, do want the police to devote more effort to cases involving fellow police officers.

My reasoning is thus. Someday, any one of us may be in a position where we desperately need a police officer to put their own safety in jeopardy to protect us. I want that police officer to know that every other police officer is going to help them. That if they need to call for urgent assistance, all other officers in the vicinity will drop what they are doing; that if they need an ambulance, their colleagues will close every road necessary to give the ambulance a free run; and if they are the victim of an assault, their colleagues will pull out every stop to track down the perpetrator. It seems to me that only if the officer has that assurance can we as a society reasonably ask them to do the things we do ask them to on our behalf and in order to preserve the civilised society that is in all of our interests.

Of course, ideally, they would pull out every stop to track down every perpetrator. But we all know that ain't going to happen in a world of finite resources. So I will happilly settle for them prioritising the support and protection of their fellow officers.


I think you can be assured that if a police officer is in physical danger, colleagues will respond promptly. Around here at least, that response can sometimes border on the silly. When I was a young PC, a colleague on my shift needed some help with an arrest and another colleague was so keen to get there that he managed to park a panda car completely in a shop window. The main results being that people were diverted to help him and he later made an appearance in the dock at Leeds Magistrates' Court.

The main legal decision I'm aware of, which might give you a bit of reassurance, was a judgment delivered by Lord Denning a reknowned Master of the Rolls (senior judge on the civil side.) He was known for deciding what he thought was a fair result and then defining the law to fit. In this case (whose citation I cannot remember) a police officer was killed in a car crash on the way to a suspected terrorist incident. He had passed a light at red and "was in collision with" another emergency vehicle going through at green. His widow's claim for "criminal injuries" compensation was turned down on the basis that he had been breaking the law himself. Allowing her appeal, Lord Denning ruled along the lines that while the law expected people to retreat in the face of danger, it could not be public policy that the police should run away from it and they should not have to worry about how they are their families would be treated if they were injured.

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby swansonj » 30 Nov 2011, 9:16am

thirdcrank wrote: I think you can be assured that if a police officer is in physical danger, colleagues will respond promptly....
The main legal decision I'm aware of, which might give you a bit of reassurance, was a judgment delivered by Lord Denning ...


I think that's exactly the point I was making. Police officers do know that their colleagues will not leave them out on a limb. They know that intellectually but they have also absorbed it subconsciously, because that is the culture they have worked in and observed. Part of what goes to make up that culture is that police probably will devote more effort to investigating crimes committed against fellow police officers, and all I was saying is that I have no problem with that.

Anyway, this is all getting a bit distant from cycling issues.

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby karlt » 30 Nov 2011, 9:45am

swansonj wrote:
thirdcrank wrote: I think you can be assured that if a police officer is in physical danger, colleagues will respond promptly....
The main legal decision I'm aware of, which might give you a bit of reassurance, was a judgment delivered by Lord Denning ...


I think that's exactly the point I was making. Police officers do know that their colleagues will not leave them out on a limb. They know that intellectually but they have also absorbed it subconsciously, because that is the culture they have worked in and observed. Part of what goes to make up that culture is that police probably will devote more effort to investigating crimes committed against fellow police officers, and all I was saying is that I have no problem with that.

Anyway, this is all getting a bit distant from cycling issues.


They will naturally be inclined both to respond and investigate very promptly and thoroughly, on the very simple basis of "next time it could be me."

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby PW » 30 Nov 2011, 1:20pm

There's also the consideration that this was Mansfield. That's coal mining country, or was. People grew up expecting to watch their workmates' backs.
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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby AlbionLass » 30 Nov 2011, 1:40pm

Three more arrests have been made today in relation to this

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/more_a ... _1_4016582

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Re: Off duty copper gets knocked off his bike. Hit n run.

Postby PW » 30 Nov 2011, 2:02pm

This is sounding as though it was targeted, and I remember the copper being in the press. Mods it may be an idea to keep an eye on this thread so we don't mess up any prosecution.
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