Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Feb 2012, 10:35am

The Mechanic wrote:
Deckie wrote:
thelawnet wrote:With number plates it's easy to get a number or letter out of place. If this happens, I check possibilities online using a car insurance website - it will tell you the car type, which should match what you remember, if it doesn't you've probably got the plate wrong. Better to do that than give the wrong plate to the police or whatever.


Or the car is on a false plate...

In my parents' village they are part of a scheme with the Police where locals have use of a speed camera from time to time (shared between a number of villages). Two of them operate, one to check speed and one to note number plates. The police have found that roughly 30% of the vehicles reported for speeding do not have valid number plates. Initially they thought it was the users not noting the numbers correctly, so they joined them for a couple of weeks only to find exactly the same results.


Now that is scary.

What that 30% of people who break the law are also breaking the law?

Maybe plates should be RFID devices as well - embedded into vehicle chassis (maybe at MOT time)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

reohn2
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby reohn2 » 16 Feb 2012, 11:28am

[XAP]Bob wrote:Now that is scary.

What I find scary this that the police and therefore the CPS,government etc,know about it and have known about for sometime,yet still nothing is done.Furthermore the penalties are paltry.

What that 30% of people who break the law are also breaking the law?
Maybe plates should be RFID devices as well - embedded into vehicle chassis (maybe at MOT time)

That and other methods would be an obvious course of action to to "stamp" it out along with some serious penalties.
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Alan D
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Alan D » 16 Feb 2012, 1:18pm

Tony,
Sorry to hear about that, it was awful. Have you thought of standing at that incident site around the same time, and at other times, for a few days to see if this low life was on his normal commute? Might be worth having a camera, in case theres any evidence such as scratches/dents on the car.
All the best,
Alan

Ricardo
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Ricardo » 16 Feb 2012, 1:43pm

Definitely worth staking the place out, especially if it is on your normal route anyway (it isn't as though you're going out of your way). Of course, the pondlife might use a different route for a while until he feel's the heat had died down. Perhaps being further up the road along which he was coming, if he has options for breaking off and scuttling along some other route. Still, if there's a roundabout where it happened, he might pass through there too.

I now use a helmet cam (which I'd actually bought for some "dangerous sports" - ziplining, bungee into the Zambezi kind of thing - before discovering that cycling is just as bad), so whenever I'm out there's some device doing the remembering for me (battery life and memory capacity remaining being important!). Often you don't know you'll need the number until suddenly the culprit is gone and you're left thinking "damn, I looked at the plate too, but b*ggered if I can remember it now". Perhaps when these pond-dwellers get caught they should provide the victim with a portable head-cam and all the trimmings as part of the compensation. That way, they are helping to make the roads more "policed" than they were previously. A camera gets around the problem of seeing the number before you know you're going to need it, and we may end up getting a dash-mount for it in the car too.

In the meantime it'd be interesting to see whether the plods are interested in looking at security camera footage from places nearby (garage forecourts or just the usual "surveilling the shoppers" ones. Most important is raising the profile of the incident so that some local with a bit of community spirit could have a quiet word with the police if they see anything. My guess is that they'll say "another hit & run, nobody hurt, just a cyclist, file it" - because I'm jaded that way (I worked with the police for a while (IT) and lost most of my illusions).

I'm a suspicious-minded person myself, the moment he said "I'm not going anywhere" I'd have read the plate a dozen times. To me that puts up a red flag - its an odd thing to say because it means he's already considered it, and people change their minds under pressure. As for the bystanders - same old story in a way too, like the NY subway - a thousand witnesses and nobody saw a thing.

Good hunting.

"A soft word turneth away wrath, but a brick speaks louder than words".

thirdcrank
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Feb 2012, 4:47pm

reohn2 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Now that is scary.

What I find scary this that the police and therefore the CPS,government etc,know about it and have known about for sometime,yet still nothing is done.Furthermore the penalties are paltry...


I've no idea what the level of false plates must be but the present situation can only encourage people to do it and there must be a certain incentive for the authorities to keep quiet about it as publicity might tend to encourage people to do it and others to allege they had been the victims. A witness's record of a reg may be mistaken - and that will be the usual assumption if it brings up a "wrong" result, but I suspect that assumption may be made when in fact it's the plate that is dodgy, rather than the witness's observation. The most obvious place to measure this would be with automatic enforcement systems - speed cameras and the like, where the reg is recorded accurately. There must be some people who run the cloned number plate defence just as a try on, but the road safety partnerships or whoever now operates these things must have a good idea of how many tickets are disputed or go nowhere because of false / allegedly false plates.

Fitting false plates is no different to any other disguise, or wearing gloves to prevent detection by fingerprints. Camera systems identifying reg plates are a powerful tool. (It's how PC Beshenivsky's killers were caught. ) It's also controversial because of the Orwellian aspects. The systems rely in part on plates complying with strict criteria if false alarms are to be avoided, but the enforcement of that is infrequent, afaik, and easily characterised as officious.

Action is apparently being taken eg the officer in the spectacular crash recently discudded on here was reported to be a member of a squad intercepting cars identified by automatic systems as having dickie plates. Setting aside narcissistic people who have non-conforming plates, anybody with the wrong reg on their car is probably a baddy. (Not always: I know somebody of impeccable respectability who bought a secondhand from a main Ford Dealership and when he had been running it a few months discovered that one of the characters on the plates was wrong - a "U" where the correct letter was a "V" The incorrect plates had been on the car since it had been first registered. He only found out when he took it to a different garage for an MOT.)

reohn2
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby reohn2 » 16 Feb 2012, 5:18pm

IMO,as long as reg plates can be bought from car accessory shops there'll be a huge scope for corruption.
Whilst I realise that theres a way around most things if someone is determined enough,if plates were only available from government/official regional outlets on production of proof of ownership,driving licence,and/or other official proof needed to be on the roads and if the penalties were horrendously expensive, cloning would be kept to an absolute minimum.
As things stand if someone can find a car similar to one the they just bought and didn't register to him/herself at the other end of the country,copy the plate by slipping someone in the motor trade £100(?) and keep his/her nose clean on the road he/she could drive about unhindered,unless they were involved in an accident.If two sets of plates were used,for £200 one off payment theres a good chance they'd never be caught.
Lets face it the roads aren't exactly awash with police vehicles :?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Feb 2012, 5:28pm

reohn2 wrote:IMO,as long as reg plates can be bought from car accessory shops there'll be a huge scope for corruption.
Whilst I realise that theres a way around most things if someone is determined enough,if plates were only available from government/official regional outlets ....


One that might be close to your heart, I remember from long ago reading something - it was probably in a comic so it may be wrong - saying that in the US (possibly only in some states) plates are renewed every year when the car is taxed - as evidence that it has been and, wait for it.... all the number plates are manufactured for the authorities by the "guests" at places like Hotel California.

Although pukka retailrs who sell plates are subject to all sorts of regulation, they seem to be readily available by mail order, on the basis that the purchaser is warranting that the plates will only be used away from public roads. :roll:

Tonyf33
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Tonyf33 » 16 Feb 2012, 5:52pm

Alan D wrote:Tony,
Sorry to hear about that, it was awful. Have you thought of standing at that incident site around the same time, and at other times, for a few days to see if this low life was on his normal commute? Might be worth having a camera, in case theres any evidence such as scratches/dents on the car.
All the best,
Alan

Thanks, it was going to be my first course of action (Once my leg feels a bit better as it's now pretty stiff) I will be utilising several devices to aid in the capture of said pondlife, sadly for him none of which will be a stickleback net...muhahaha :lol:

As for the old bill, got a lift back home (it was within walking distance anyway) but he just said he's got 24 hours to report it, would be logged for processing and basically that would be it. I managed to get a URN number after forcing his hand but I wont be getting a crime ref number (as we don't have other parties details or somesuch) so my impression is that they are going to do jack @@@@ :evil: Letchworth isn't really high up on the number of CCTV but I'll check around the area that he scooted off as there are some shops and industrial units.

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby hubgearfreak » 16 Feb 2012, 6:23pm

Tonyf33 wrote: I will be utilising several devices to aid in the capture of said pondlife


good luck in finding him and good luck in getting the police to act

as for number plates. don't we now only need to remember make, model & colour and the last three digits for the police to be able to find it (if it's legit)?

Tonyf33
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Tonyf33 » 17 Feb 2012, 2:05pm

Well, looks like the MIB thing is no good re 'property damage' as that is only for uninsured drivers, I'll have to put in a personal injury claim :evil:
My wheel methinks is beyond salvation
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Feb 2012, 2:26pm

Isn't it to cover for losses that would have been covered by an otherwise insured motorist (i.e .against uninsured/absent drivers)


Bloody hell - "Not payable when you can't identify the vehicle. So in what way is that protection against "untraceable" cases...
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A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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meic
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby meic » 17 Feb 2012, 3:05pm

I cant tell from a photograph but I had a wheel pringle (not as much as that) on a descent and just loosening all the spokes made it come true again. Then I retensioned it and used it again.

as I said I cant see if there is other damage to the wheel beyond the pringeling.
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Tonyf33
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Tonyf33 » 17 Feb 2012, 7:19pm

meic wrote:I cant tell from a photograph but I had a wheel pringle (not as much as that) on a descent and just loosening all the spokes made it come true again. Then I retensioned it and used it again.

as I said I cant see if there is other damage to the wheel beyond the pringeling.

I've tried it and whilst not as bad as it was it's still well beyond my skills. Rim has lost some of the ceramic coating but isn't actually dinged, in any case I've pinched a rear from another bike which is fine for now.
It's done tremendous service over the years (c.20k in all weather conditions) and I got it 2nd hand anyway so though it could go on for some while yet I'll retire it.
I'm looking at a ceramic rim to replace it.

Looked at buildings along the scrotes escape route and there might be luck with CCTV, there's one on a car parts place, one on an office building which might catch sight (doubtful of the number due to the angle on that one) but best are going to be two council ones. One points back toward the town so probably not the route he took and one would seem to be more plausible. Given his speed to escape the scene and the first couple of digits of the reg that someone gave to the police something might turn up. With some luck I might be able to get the police to investigate the potential avenues I've found :roll:
As per the PCs chat I'll assume they are filing the report with no investigation pending. If it had being a small child or elderly person I'm sure they would have been more than keen to trace the driver no doubt :x

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Phil_Lee
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby Phil_Lee » 18 Feb 2012, 6:17am

reohn2 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Now that is scary.

What I find scary this that the police and therefore the CPS,government etc,know about it and have known about for sometime,yet still nothing is done.Furthermore the penalties are paltry.

What that 30% of people who break the law are also breaking the law?
Maybe plates should be RFID devices as well - embedded into vehicle chassis (maybe at MOT time)

That and other methods would be an obvious course of action to to "stamp" it out along with some serious penalties.


I don't think the penalties are all that paltry.
Attempting to pervert the course of justice is treated pretty severely - it's no different to giving a different driver's name when the NIP comes through the post - maybe one who has less points on their license.

reohn2
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Re: Hit and Run Victim Letchworth 18:55 hrs

Postby reohn2 » 18 Feb 2012, 9:46am

Phil_Lee wrote:I don't think the penalties are all that paltry.

How long does it take to get over a broken leg,wrist and other bruising,not to mention the possible(to a greater or lesser degree) phsycological fear of the road as a vulnerable user?


Attempting to pervert the course of justice is treated pretty severely

So it should be,have we got room for a good number of judges and politrickians in the cells :wink:
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