Queueing etiquette

[thelawnet]

Any thoughts on this subject?

I'm turning right from minor to major (t-junction), three cars are ahead of me, the front two signalling right, the third not signalling but was closer to going right than left.

I am going right.

I wait politely behind them all, the first two move off when there's a gap in the traffic, and the third turns out to be going left, and by the time I get to the give way line it's no longer safe for me to go, whereas had she signalled left I would have positioned myself behind the second car.

I filter during congestion, and my actions don't slow anyone down, whereas if I were to jump the queue in this scenario, those who had got there first would have to wait for me.

Perhaps I am too polite.

[thirdcrank]

Think of this in terms of the actions of the third driver who, for wahtever reason did not signal their intentions. Either they did not see you (and so thought signalling was unnecessary) or they did see you and thought that you were not worth the courtesy of a signal (or even wanted to keep you guessing so you did not filter.) In any event, you are probably safer behind somebody like that than in front of them (so long as you keep alert to the possibility of a sudden reversing manoeuvre.)

PS I suppose it's even possible that they did not make up their mind until they reached the junction.

[thelawnet]

Think of this in terms of the actions of the third driver who, for wahtever reason did not signal their intentions. Either they did not see you (and so thought signalling was unnecessary) or they did see you and thought that you were not worth the courtesy of a signal (or even wanted to keep you guessing so you did not filter.) In any event, you are probably safer behind somebody like that than in front of them (so long as you keep alert to the possibility of a sudden reversing manoeuvre.)

PS I suppose it's even possible that they did not make up their mind until they reached the junction.

It was a school run mum, I presume she was going home and knew the route well.

You make a good point re being careful around someone who is obviously inconsiderate, or not paying attention.

Certainly best to assume they could go either way, and if passing on the right, pass them as if they are turning on the right, and vice versa. Or just wait where I was as you say.

I do get irritated by drivers not signalling, it's useful to pedestrians too (although pedestrians should remember they have priority when a car is turning into their road).

[irc]

For me it depends on the road you are turning into. If it is wide enough that cars can overtake me easily and safely I'd probably filter up the inside and stop level with the rear of the first car so I wasn't obstructing his view left but a good car width to his left if possible. Then when he moved off I'd go at the same time keeping a good gap between me and him. Doing this I don't think I'm delaying the second car and on a wide road it can easily pass me after turning.

I the turn was on to a narrow road I'd wait in line.

[arc]

Can only endorse thirdcrank's advice wrt reversing - a week or so when, waiting patiently behind a car at a t junction, it started reversing. Saw the white lights just in time to throw myself and bike out of the way. Driver saw me as I banged tail of his car, looked startled and then drove off forwards leaving me very confused!

[CREPELLO]

So what do you do if the vehicle in front at a T junc is turning left and you want to turn right? Lane space allowing, I move to the right of the vehicle (well, let's say a car. I don't think I would try this along side a LGV or bus). It's perfectly safe and legal, but I'm aware that I may obstruct the view of the driver to their right. I'm just concious that I may cause issue in the driver's mind.

[hubgearfreak]

Any thoughts on this subject?

care to link it on the google map?

[thirdcrank]

So what do you do if the vehicle in front at a T junc is turning left and you want to turn right? Lane space allowing, I move to the right of the vehicle (well, let's say a car. I don't think I would try this along side a LGV or bus). It's perfectly safe and legal, but I'm aware that I may obstruct the view of the driver to their right. I'm just concious that I may cause issue in the driver's mind.

But I've had this when I was there first. Until traffic lights were installed fairly recently, there was a terrible unsighted junction near where I live - when we first moved here the main road was subject to the national speed limit which used to be 70mph. It was eventually reduced to 40mph which was still too high for safety. Anyway, on one memorable occasion, I was sitting there waiting for a safe opportunity to ride across when a car pulled up on my offside. Although I could still see over the roof of the car, it was quickly apparent that its driver couldn't see to his left because I was in his way. The fast-moving traffic prevented me from moving and the driver's body language was betraying increasing frustration. Eventually, his window went down and he began shouting at me that I was blocking his view and the situation didn't improve when I remionded him I'd been sitting there when he arrived.

[iviehoff]

although pedestrians should remember they have priority when a car is turning into their road.

Actually it is more important that vehicular drivers remember that, for avoidance of killing people.

This is also an issue whenever a segregated cycle lane goes past a turn-off. Unless the cycle lane has give way marks, vehicles turning across the cycle lane should give way to it, after all they are crossing another lane of traffic. However traffic authorities despair of thinking they will actually do so. Hence those cycle lanes with give way signs at every driveway intersecting them. On a regular cycling route I use, a segregated cycle lane at a set of traffic lights had separate phases for bicycles and cars, to avoid the conflict. Recently the council has (thank you) entirely removed the lights at these junctions - the cyclists took very little notice of their separate phase, because it meant they had an incredibly long wait when it would have been perfectly safe for them to proceed, and giving them a separate phase reduced the time for other traffic and resulted in unnecessary queues. Nevertheless, it would have been nice if the council had erected a sign or markings advising the traffic crossing the cycle lane to give way.

[Ayesha]

It is OK to go past a vehicle indicating right on its left hand side. It is also OK to go past a vehicle in a 'slower moving line of traffic' on the left hand side.

Pass all the stationary cars on their left hand side and get in a position to ride straight across the major road to assume Secondary position when you reach it.

"Queue jumping" is a cyclist's advantage. If anyone complains, tell them "Get a bike".

Of course, if you was on a Windcheetah Speedy, Catrike or ICE tadpole, you'd have to wait your turn like a motorist.

AND, rolling along at 40mph in a 40mph limit is a motorist's advantage, but they overtake us because we're a slower line of traffic on their left .

[[XAP]Bob]

ICE tadpoles don't have to wait - we get to filter past traffic too. Of course we have to be slightly more aware of the traffic as numpties in there cages don't often observe the road before hitting the throttle, they just assume it was as it was when they stopped.

I regularly filter past several queues of traffic on my commute. Great fun it is too.

[Ayesha]

ICE tadpoles don't have to wait - we get to filter past traffic too. Of course we have to be slightly more aware of the traffic as numpties in there cages don't often observe the road before hitting the throttle, they just assume it was as it was when they stopped.

I regularly filter past several queues of traffic on my commute. Great fun it is too.

I used a Windcheetah Speedy once. What un-nerved me was my ability to read the tyre sizes of the stationary cars as I passed them. That and not being able to eye-ball the driver.

[[XAP]Bob]

Using one once and every day are somewhat different experiences...

I am aware of the limitations of most vehicles blind spots, I'll often pull up to second in a queue - making sure I've eyeballed the vehicle behind me - this usually involves having the front of the trike alongside the lead vehicle.

It is a different technique - but both are possible.

My trike is only a couple of inches wider than my flat bars, at the end of the day it's normally shoulders which actually define our width -and therefore our ability to filter (not whether or not filtering is a sensible thing to do)

Junctions need to be approached with great care, because cars being let out are inevitably looking the wrong way when I come past - but that it one reason I have an AirZound - I use it probably weekly, not as an admonishment but as a "Hey look over here, I'm not tarmac, I can see you looking away and edging"

Personally I don't queue very often - I will do so when it's not safe to filter, or when I'll clearly get through on the next phase anyway (although depending on the situation that's not certain)

[stewartpratt]

I would do what the OP did and just accept that sometimes you happen to miss a gap in the traffic and that waiting a few seconds isn't the end of the world (cyclists like reminding motorists of that, right?). I certainly wouldn't do what Ayesha suggests. YMMV.

[Ayesha]

I would do what the OP did and just accept that sometimes you happen to miss a gap in the traffic and that waiting a few seconds isn't the end of the world (cyclists like reminding motorists of that, right?). I certainly wouldn't do what Ayesha suggests. YMMV.

At some lamp controlled junctions, the road is marked to allow cyclists to 'filter' and then take up a position to go whichever way they choose. ASL boxes.
The road does not need to be painted for a cyclist ( if there is enough room and it is safe ) to 'filter' on the curbside and take up a position alongside the motorist.

A lot of discussions on cycling forums start with one member describing what they did or didn't do. One has to remember every situation is different. Even the same junction on consecutive days at the same time of day.
'Savvy' has to be exercised.

One cyclist might be confident enough to 'filter'. Another not confident. One cyclist will take advantage of being on a bike, another wouldn't.

I would say it would be a pretty up-tight and self centred motorist to expect a cyclist to wait at the back of a queue of traffic when there's opportunity to 'filter'.