Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Edwards
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Edwards » 11 May 2012, 7:41pm

kwackers wrote:He's still be in the wrong. If he couldn't overtake the cyclist safely then he should have hung back and waited.


Even if he was back over the line at the time of impact?
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kwackers
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby kwackers » 11 May 2012, 9:38pm

Edwards wrote:
kwackers wrote:He's still be in the wrong. If he couldn't overtake the cyclist safely then he should have hung back and waited.


Even if he was back over the line at the time of impact?

You've lost me.

How did he collide with a lorry if they're both on their own side of the road?

Edwards
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Edwards » 11 May 2012, 10:05pm

I can not be certain but if the truck was on the correct side of the line and the wheels of the bike near the line then the glancing blow is possible.
The only way I can speculate how this could happen. Pure speculation as the report does state the truck was over the line before the impact and not at the time. Unfortunately there is so little information that what ever we come up with is pure speculation.
Keith Edwards
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Edwards
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Edwards » 12 May 2012, 5:19am

My apologies to the OP for taking this thread away from a very important subject. The courts made a ruling such that the rider could only claim from his insurance if it covered him for this. So any more discussion of this case on my part would be tiresome and counter productive.

I had never given this a thought before but now am wondering about it. Does the CTC insurance and other club cover personal injury, even if another party is not involved?
I am now wondering where you would get cover for personal injury for cycling and the cost?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby thirdcrank » 12 May 2012, 8:15am

Edwards wrote:... Does the CTC insurance and other club cover personal injury, even if another party is not involved? ...


I think many people don't really know what their insurance covers because of the ways it's sold. Afaik, the insurance which comes as part of the CTC (and BC) membership is third party liability cover for cycling accidents. ie the member and insurance company are the parties to the contract and the third party is the person who makes a claim against the rider. The users of motor vehicles are required by law to have third party cover and that's what would be expected to fund any compo for a cyclist killed / injured through a driver's negligence. (The MIB should pick up the tab if the driver was uninsured or untraced.) Personal injury cover is really for the cases where there is going to be no payout because the injuries were either the rider's own fault (as decided by the system) or total accidents, where "no one was really to blame."

A lot of personal injury insurance is tagged onto packages, such as the travel insurance flogged by travel agents.

Edwards
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Edwards » 12 May 2012, 9:12am

TC thank you for confirming what I thought might be the case. I wonder if some household insurance might cover personal accident if I should come of the bike due to my own fault?

I am now wondering if anybody has this type of everyday personal cover for normal life in this country?
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Mick F
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Mick F » 12 May 2012, 12:26pm

Basically, what we're asking, is to be insured for yourself - just like you would insure any item against loss or damage.

Life insurance isn't for YOU coz you'll be dead! The company pays out to your estate. We want accident insurance to pay out if you are severely injured and incapacitated. This can be very expensive over a lifetime.

Sounds like an expensive option. I'm covered up to (only) £10,000 if I'm injured in my car through my fault, and that figure wouldn't go very far in care costs and facilities.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby thirdcrank » 12 May 2012, 2:04pm

Edwards wrote: ... I am now wondering if anybody has this type of everyday personal cover for normal life in this country?


If you google, there's plenty advertised. I've no idea how many people weigh up the risks they face and take insurance decisions about covering against them. It's not something I ever had to do. In common with many similar organisations, Leeds City Police had all sorts of schemes based on mutuality. They got you to sign up for all sorts on your first day. Eg if a member died, everybody in the scheme (ie everybody in the force) had a pay dedection of 10/- (50p) and the Federation rep would be round to the bereaved family PDQ with around £600 in cash. That sounds like peanuts these days but both the deductions and the resulting lump sum were substantial in those days. Two or three deaths in a month made an inroad into the bottom line, but a lot better than a collection which depended on things like the enthusuasm of the collector. The Police Federation offers various personal accident policies and then there's the Police Mutual assurance Society. In Leeds we also had a benevolent fund.

I suspect the growth of the welfare state has reduced the need for this sort of mutuality with its roots in the days of the Poor Law.

snibgo
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby snibgo » 12 May 2012, 2:26pm

You can probably insure against any risk. Death, permanent disability and hospitalisation seem to be popular options. The choice and level of cover might rationally depend on personal attitude to risk, whether one's income would be affected by disability etc, and whether one has dependants.

Fairly obviously, the policy wording should be checked for exclusions.

Just as an example, £128 per year will buy an Aviva "family personal accident plan" for one adult that will pay out £100,000 on loss of two limbs, or £50,000 on death, and a range of other payments. Motorcycling is excluded, but cars and bikes are okay.

thirdcrank
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby thirdcrank » 12 May 2012, 2:42pm

On the subject of the court desion in the original link, it seems a bit futile to comment without a proper court report. It was listed as B3/2011/ 2464 Whiteford -v- Kubas Uab. I can't find it on Bailii. Perhaps somebody with more idea than I have may find it. :?

snibgo
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby snibgo » 12 May 2012, 3:22pm

I looked online, including Bailii. Perhaps it's available on a paid-for legal database.

Ayesha
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Ayesha » 12 May 2012, 3:27pm

Personal injury insurance ? How does it work?

You pay a premium e.g. £250 pa.
You break an arm.
You claim £10,000.
You pay a premium, now £500 pa.
You break the other arm.
You claim £10,000.

You stop the policy and you are £19,250 richer.

Is this "No pain, no gain?"

Grandad
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby Grandad » 13 May 2012, 12:12am

Just as an example, £128 per year will buy an Aviva "family personal accident plan" for one adult that will pay out £100,000 on loss of two limbs, or £50,000 on death, and a range of other payments. Motorcycling is excluded, but cars and bikes are okay.


I suspect that this does not include accidents happening at work? For example a scaffolder faces a bigger risk than a desk bound clerk and would pay a higher premium. When Aviva was Commercial Union there was a scale of occupations along the same lines as the Groups used for cars.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 May 2012, 4:25pm

Edwards wrote:
kwackers wrote:He's still be in the wrong. If he couldn't overtake the cyclist safely then he should have hung back and waited.


Even if he was back over the line at the time of impact?

If it was a right hand corner and the motorcycle tyre was up against the line then the motorcyclist could have been over the line - but wouldn't that have been reported as "motorcyclist over the line"?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

thirdcrank
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Re: Why personal accident insurance might be worth having

Postby thirdcrank » 13 May 2012, 4:39pm

snibgo wrote:I looked online, including Bailii. Perhaps it's available on a paid-for legal database.


Perhaps we are a bit too eager - there may well be a bit of a delay in the report being prepared and published.