Is it a matter of training different use of quads and glutes, for a reasonably fit upright cyclist to be able to cycle up mountain passes without having to use VERY low gears at a snail's pace annoying any traffic? Is anything steeper than 1:5 possible on a recumbent trike?
Currently climb Llanberis Pass steepest bits comfortably on touring bike using 30" gear. Struggle on a recumbent trike in bottom gear of 18". And me knees hurt!
Any encouraging news out there?
Recumbent Trikes Uphill
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ThePinkOne
- Posts: 246
- Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm
I found it is different on a recumbent- actual muscles AND how you use them. Thinking "pull" rather than "push" as you spin up a hill I found helpful oddly enough. Bit like visualising your knees as if being pulled up on strings- that "technique" aspect made a huge difference to me uphill. As did getting a good steady rhythm going and not worrying about what gear I was using...... Even when I seemed to be using lower gears when I looked at journey time speed was about the same in the end.
You might also want to look at your cleat position- I found that on a trike I need my cleats much further back on the shoe than on a DF, pretty much as far back as they will go. Also, you may want to consider using shorted cranks?
As with anything, practise makes perfect. It does take a bit to get your "trike" muscles though- and get the riding position just right. That includes back angle too and position of seat (forward/aft position). For me the best sorting on that lot was done when I put the trike on rollers (with resistance unit) in the shed for the winter so I could use it as a turbo- got all the little set-up things sorted.
Hope that helps a bit.
P.
You might also want to look at your cleat position- I found that on a trike I need my cleats much further back on the shoe than on a DF, pretty much as far back as they will go. Also, you may want to consider using shorted cranks?
As with anything, practise makes perfect. It does take a bit to get your "trike" muscles though- and get the riding position just right. That includes back angle too and position of seat (forward/aft position). For me the best sorting on that lot was done when I put the trike on rollers (with resistance unit) in the shed for the winter so I could use it as a turbo- got all the little set-up things sorted.
Hope that helps a bit.
P.
My thinking is that it's all about smooth pedalling, a bit like a tandem.
On an upright the bike can, and does, move backwards and forwards underneath you when climbing (especially if you're out of the saddle). This helps to even out the pedalling force: you sort-of accelerate the bike up the hill and then your body follows after it. Your body moves up the hill smoothly, but the bike proceeds in a series of jerks to match the jerks of the pedalling forces.
On a recumbent you are much more rigidly attached to the bike, so you feel the whole weight of bike+body as you push on the pedals. This is both demoralising mentally, and also probably less efficient for your muscles. Keeping the pedals rotating as fast as possible, and moving your feet in circles rather than pushing, helps (at least in my experience).
I find the same effect on a tandem (leads to the classic "tandems are slow up hills") but even then you have some movement between the bike and riders fore and aft as you climb.
On an upright the bike can, and does, move backwards and forwards underneath you when climbing (especially if you're out of the saddle). This helps to even out the pedalling force: you sort-of accelerate the bike up the hill and then your body follows after it. Your body moves up the hill smoothly, but the bike proceeds in a series of jerks to match the jerks of the pedalling forces.
On a recumbent you are much more rigidly attached to the bike, so you feel the whole weight of bike+body as you push on the pedals. This is both demoralising mentally, and also probably less efficient for your muscles. Keeping the pedals rotating as fast as possible, and moving your feet in circles rather than pushing, helps (at least in my experience).
I find the same effect on a tandem (leads to the classic "tandems are slow up hills") but even then you have some movement between the bike and riders fore and aft as you climb.
Anthony Cartmell (also known as "admin" when posting in a more official capacity on this Forum)
Kangaroo trike, Windcheetah recumbent, Batavus dutch bike, Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem, Pashley unicycle
http://www.fonant.com – Quality web sites.
Kangaroo trike, Windcheetah recumbent, Batavus dutch bike, Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem, Pashley unicycle
http://www.fonant.com – Quality web sites.
deliquium
I have a Trice S, I haven't got a turbo trainer yet but I have looked at putting my trike on one. You need to look at how the rotor (bit that runs on the tyre) is attached to the frame of the trainer 'cause the one that I looked at would be easy to put the rotor on a longer plate to make up the difference. Also you would need to put extra support under the front wheels to level out the trike.
As for going up hills, I'm still working on the best technique. I need to get it sorted as I've just made up my mind to do LEJOG next July.
I have a Trice S, I haven't got a turbo trainer yet but I have looked at putting my trike on one. You need to look at how the rotor (bit that runs on the tyre) is attached to the frame of the trainer 'cause the one that I looked at would be easy to put the rotor on a longer plate to make up the difference. Also you would need to put extra support under the front wheels to level out the trike.
As for going up hills, I'm still working on the best technique. I need to get it sorted as I've just made up my mind to do LEJOG next July.
Cheers, Donald
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
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ThePinkOne
- Posts: 246
- Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm
Turbo trainer with a trike:
I ride a windcheetah so cannot use a conventional turbo (cantilever rear axle). Instead I got a set of rollers with a resistance unit (St Johns St cycles), the rear wheel sits in the rollers and the front heels sit in (home-made) chocks so the whole thing is level. Has advantage of being easy to climb into but must put front brakes on for obvious reasons. The front wheels straddle the roller frame and careful positioning of the front roller means it doesn't interfere with the chain line. The resistance unti control is nice and handy- I attach it to the miror bracket so it is to hand.
Removing trike easy too- release the front brakes and lift off the chocks and roll it out. I did wonder it I would need to anchor the roler frame to the floor but no although as it was set up in the shed the floor was rough wood and also no probs with noise.
P.
I ride a windcheetah so cannot use a conventional turbo (cantilever rear axle). Instead I got a set of rollers with a resistance unit (St Johns St cycles), the rear wheel sits in the rollers and the front heels sit in (home-made) chocks so the whole thing is level. Has advantage of being easy to climb into but must put front brakes on for obvious reasons. The front wheels straddle the roller frame and careful positioning of the front roller means it doesn't interfere with the chain line. The resistance unti control is nice and handy- I attach it to the miror bracket so it is to hand.
Removing trike easy too- release the front brakes and lift off the chocks and roll it out. I did wonder it I would need to anchor the roler frame to the floor but no although as it was set up in the shed the floor was rough wood and also no probs with noise.
P.
To more accurately mimic how a recumbent trike feels on the road, you might want to investigate adding quite a bit more inertia (not resistance) to the turbo-trainer. A heavy flywheel is needed, and would help practise the ultra-smooth pedalling style needed.
My guess is that the standard turbo-trainer inertia is probably the same as the equivalent inertia of an upright bike. As I see it, it's the much greater inertia of recumbent+rider that's the issue when climbing hills (similar to the greater intertia of tandem+riders).
My guess is that the standard turbo-trainer inertia is probably the same as the equivalent inertia of an upright bike. As I see it, it's the much greater inertia of recumbent+rider that's the issue when climbing hills (similar to the greater intertia of tandem+riders).
Anthony Cartmell (also known as "admin" when posting in a more official capacity on this Forum)
Kangaroo trike, Windcheetah recumbent, Batavus dutch bike, Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem, Pashley unicycle
http://www.fonant.com – Quality web sites.
Kangaroo trike, Windcheetah recumbent, Batavus dutch bike, Dawes Galaxy Twin tandem, Pashley unicycle
http://www.fonant.com – Quality web sites.
Recumbents Uphill
I triked (on a Windcheetah) from Derby to Peterborough on 9th June. 6 hours door-to-door, including all stops.
Identical route last weekend, on Dawes Super Galaxy. 5 hours 30. Very slightly less luggage.
I'm not getting any fitter or younger. So the difference "must" be that a conventional touring bike is quicker on average. The downhill top speeds are lower on an upright (25 mph vs 35 mph), but the higher uphill speeds (12mph vs 7mph) have more effect overall. (Very approximate, and probably not comparing like-with-like.)
Having said that...
I think I prefer the trike. It turns more heads (and not a few stomachs). It has more 'presence' on the road. I triked home again on 10th June - 5h15 - and Derby is uphill from Peterborough. I didn't do the equivalent ride back on the conventional bike last weekend; I chickened out and took the train back.
Identical route last weekend, on Dawes Super Galaxy. 5 hours 30. Very slightly less luggage.
I'm not getting any fitter or younger. So the difference "must" be that a conventional touring bike is quicker on average. The downhill top speeds are lower on an upright (25 mph vs 35 mph), but the higher uphill speeds (12mph vs 7mph) have more effect overall. (Very approximate, and probably not comparing like-with-like.)
Having said that...
I think I prefer the trike. It turns more heads (and not a few stomachs). It has more 'presence' on the road. I triked home again on 10th June - 5h15 - and Derby is uphill from Peterborough. I didn't do the equivalent ride back on the conventional bike last weekend; I chickened out and took the train back.
"Little Green Men Are Everywhere... ...But Mostly On Traffic Lights."
I bet the trike was alot more comfortable, as well as safer at speed.
Cheers, Donald
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
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ThePinkOne
- Posts: 246
- Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm
Yes, I have to admit I have my trike for comfort not speed. Actually, I damaged my upper spine in a road accident a few years ago and the resulting long-term neck damage makes a DF very painful to ride (the head angle) whereas a recumbent isn't a prob.
I debated trike or bike in recumbent form but after trying a 'cheetah had to have the trike. It's so much fun and also confidence-inspring... and much more comfortable. Just more civilised all around. I also find the increased road presence too, you do seem to get treated much better and as a vehicle, prob because of the inherently wider machine. Although trains are a bummer as only HSTs will take a trike, plus "cycle paths" often have gates that are very trike-unfriendly or are a bit on the narrow side... which is a pity as in our area some cycle paths offer a rather convenient short-cut from a to c without going through b....
P.
I debated trike or bike in recumbent form but after trying a 'cheetah had to have the trike. It's so much fun and also confidence-inspring... and much more comfortable. Just more civilised all around. I also find the increased road presence too, you do seem to get treated much better and as a vehicle, prob because of the inherently wider machine. Although trains are a bummer as only HSTs will take a trike, plus "cycle paths" often have gates that are very trike-unfriendly or are a bit on the narrow side... which is a pity as in our area some cycle paths offer a rather convenient short-cut from a to c without going through b....
P.
Well I was out on my Trice today when I climbed up to a road junction and joined 20 meters in front of a young guy in all the cobber on his Mountain bike. WE climbed gently for a couple of miles and he was getting closer, about 5 meters at best.
THEN WE WENT DOWNHILL
Last I saw him he had spun out the top gear and was going backwards at a rate of knots.
Not bad for a 56 yr old fat asthmatic who climbs slowly but descends like a demon!!!
I've just got back from doing Gunnislake round trip 46.5 miles, 3rd time up Gunny hill. This time 27 mins from the bridge at the bottom to my mates house in St Anns Chapel. Only stopped for traffic to pass on the lower narrow parts and the traffic lights. I didn't stop for muscles although I wanted to.
Last time I did it just going to Gunny took me 40 mins bridge to friends house after riding from Plymouth. First time I did it from my friends went down to the bottom and up again on fresh legs, can't remember the time, slept since then.
PS. while going over one of those inspection covers on the fast long downhill bit (35mph + for about 2 miles) from Yelverton down to Bedford bridge I lost an entire light fitting. The light is glued into the bracket and the lens is cable tied into the casing in an attempt to prevent the loss of lights but this time the band around the frame must have snapped.
Last time I did it just going to Gunny took me 40 mins bridge to friends house after riding from Plymouth. First time I did it from my friends went down to the bottom and up again on fresh legs, can't remember the time, slept since then.
PS. while going over one of those inspection covers on the fast long downhill bit (35mph + for about 2 miles) from Yelverton down to Bedford bridge I lost an entire light fitting. The light is glued into the bracket and the lens is cable tied into the casing in an attempt to prevent the loss of lights but this time the band around the frame must have snapped.
Last edited by dkmwt on 8 Sep 2007, 8:53am, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers, Donald
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
Trice "Qnt 26" 26/39/55 F 10sp 11/36 R, now with Windwrap fairing.
ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkmwt/78674512/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1188814973
Hi Donald! Funny seeing you yesterday, puffing and panting up the hill!
I was driving the Community Bus on the Tavistock run, and was on my way empty back to town to pick up another load of Old Dears. I saw this recumbent slowly grinding it's way round the top corner of Gunnnislake hill. It's one of the steepest sections there, about 1 in 8. But it's not the steepness of the hill, but the length that get to you. In about a mile, it rises from 60ft to 600ft, having passed through the village and it's traffic lights.
Anyway, I slowed down and shouted, "Hello Donald!" To which he replied through the sweat and hot sunshine, "Hello Mick!"
It was a very hot and humid afternoon, and to ride that hill in conditions like that isn't for the faint of heart.
Regards to you, Donald!
I was driving the Community Bus on the Tavistock run, and was on my way empty back to town to pick up another load of Old Dears. I saw this recumbent slowly grinding it's way round the top corner of Gunnnislake hill. It's one of the steepest sections there, about 1 in 8. But it's not the steepness of the hill, but the length that get to you. In about a mile, it rises from 60ft to 600ft, having passed through the village and it's traffic lights.
Anyway, I slowed down and shouted, "Hello Donald!" To which he replied through the sweat and hot sunshine, "Hello Mick!"
It was a very hot and humid afternoon, and to ride that hill in conditions like that isn't for the faint of heart.
Regards to you, Donald!
Mick F. Cornwall