The War on Britain's Roads

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hungrydave
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby hungrydave » 6 Dec 2012, 9:28am

hatless wrote:I have to disagree with you, 661-pete. There was quite a bit about the pleasure of cycling. Magnatom talked about cycling being a form of spirituality for him, with shots of a country lane as he spoke. The wonderful mother said how cycling to work every day had made her daughter happy. The London to Dover and back guys had clearly set out to have a great trip, hearty breakfasts and a good time together.


I'd second this - it wasn't the focus of the programme but I found head bits quite touching.

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661-Pete
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Dec 2012, 9:32am

Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....
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Erudin
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Erudin » 6 Dec 2012, 9:32am

Well they set out to shock and polarize and they succeeded. Is this what documentary television has descended to on the BBC? I'd rather watch The Ascent of Man on YouTube.

From: Leopard Films Doc to Air on BBC One By Joanna Padovano

Todd Austin, the chief creative officer at Leopard Films and executive producer of the film, commented: "This timely documentary highlights a growing problem on Britain's roads as the recent incidents involving Bradley Wiggins and GB Cycling coach Shane Sutton have shown. The documentary's unique approach in employing user-generated content to take the viewer to the heart of the story adds incredible drama to the piece. The show will polarize views across the nation and hopefully generate debate and BBC One is the perfect home for this insightful and sometimes shocking film."

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Dec 2012, 9:39am

The most disappointing things:
- No expert commentary (from the Police, DfT, J Franklin...)
This left personal opinions stated and left uncontested, noone was informed whether the taxi getting close enough to touch was too close (btw are taxis allowed in cycle lanes when "off duty"?

- No films of illegal car racing on the public roads
They happen, and they are at least as dangerous as the illegal cycle race shown.

- Weak policing shown
The red taxi which was stopped by the cycle coppers wasn't told "if he can touch you, you're too close!" Actually given the situation I don't care that he was allowed to drive off, it was being allowed to drive off without hearing that message from the police...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Geriatrix
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Geriatrix » 6 Dec 2012, 9:42am

661-Pete wrote:Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....

I agree with you although I have done it myself :oops: . It remains a valid point that any vehicle that passes close enough to allow you to do that is too close, but I'll admit, I'm not sure if the act of thumping the roof or side if the vehicle has any benefit in correcting driver behaviour, and may make it worse.
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reohn2
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby reohn2 » 6 Dec 2012, 9:44am

[XAP]Bob wrote:The most disappointing things:
- No expert commentary (from the Police, DfT, J Franklin...)
This left personal opinions stated and left uncontested, noone was informed whether the taxi getting close enough to touch was too close (btw are taxis allowed in cycle lanes when "off duty"?

Spot on

- No films of illegal car racing on the public roads
They happen, and they are at least as dangerous as the illegal cycle race shown.

Only atleast as dangerous,a damned sight more dangerous,I'd say.
- Weak policing shown
The red taxi which was stopped by the cycle coppers wasn't told "if he can touch you, you're too close!" Actually given the situation I don't care that he was allowed to drive off, it was being allowed to drive off without hearing that message from the police...

Without a doubt and the same kind of weak policing I've experienced even with wittnesses and evidence.
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kwackers
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby kwackers » 6 Dec 2012, 9:46am

Geriatrix wrote:
661-Pete wrote:Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....

I agree with you although I have done it myself :oops: . It remains a valid point that any vehicle that passes close enough to allow you to do that is too close, but I'll admit, I'm not sure if the act of thumping the roof or side if the vehicle has any benefit in correcting driver behaviour, and may make it worse.

I've only ever hit one once - I smacked the windscreen with my hand as it was in the process of rotating me and the bike around due to the car moving left and pushing my bike via the panniers.
Would I do it again? Too right. As it was it was too late and a fraction of a second later I was flipped over the bonnet but at least the daft bint got a fright from the bang on the screen.

Gynx84
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Gynx84 » 6 Dec 2012, 9:49am

In the cold light of day, and after discussions with non-cyclists, I have to change my mind, the show was appalling.

All I've heard since is "how arrogant that bloke with the glasses is" along with "If they were that taxi driver.." etc.

chrisc
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby chrisc » 6 Dec 2012, 10:02am

Watched the proggy glumly last night but could not bring myself to turn it off. Seen some of it on YouTube before. Suffered countless similar near ones myself but escaped actual collisions for 50+ years. But what I had not seen before was the appalling courier cycle 'race' through crowded streets towards the end of the film. That was frighteningly lacking in imagination on the part of the perpetrators and truly shameful; the worst possible ambassadors for cycling. Those guys should be locked up.
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reohn2
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby reohn2 » 6 Dec 2012, 10:02am

Geriatrix wrote:
661-Pete wrote:Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....

I agree with you although I have done it myself :oops: . It remains a valid point that any vehicle that passes close enough to allow you to do that is too close, but I'll admit, I'm not sure if the act of thumping the roof or side if the vehicle has any benefit in correcting driver behaviour, and may make it worse.

No but it's the only recourse when being driven into the curb at 20mph,which is what happened to me,when the driver stopped,without warning he came at me with fists at the ready,I hit him with the bike in self defence,which again was my only recourse in the circumstanes.I was not thinking about anything else but my own safety.
He OTOH was deliberately out to cause trouble and this wasn't some chavvy type but a thirtysomething business type in a shirt and tie,driving a high end Merc.I noted how he went from agressor to plaintive victim when the tables were turned.
There are an element of bullying vehicle drivers who think they can get away with murder and sometimes do,but once out of the "box" are found to be like any other jack when their spring is sprung.
I hate to have to defend myself against such people,it affects me for days afterwards,and I do my utmost to avoid it but sometimes people are either so stupid they don't realise what they're doing or they are out to deliberately bully "lesser" vehicles,you can never tell which is which.
BTW,I've never yet been knock off,I like to think it's due to riding strategy and skill but I wouldn't have stood a change against the red Mondeo who drove directly at the cyclist on roundabout in one of last nights clips.
Last edited by reohn2 on 6 Dec 2012, 10:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark1978
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Mark1978 » 6 Dec 2012, 10:03am

chrisc wrote:Watched the proggy glumly last night but could not bring myself to turn it off. Seen some of it on YouTube before. Suffered countless similar near ones myself but escaped actual collisions for 50+ years. But what I had not seen before was the appalling courier cycle 'race' through crowded streets towards the end of the film. That was frighteningly lacking in imagination on the part of the perpetrators and truly shameful; the worst possible ambassadors for cycling. Those guys should be locked up.


The problem with showing that last is that one of the last comments was "Well sometimes maybe it is ok to punch a cyclist in the face" - and that was what the viewer was left with.

Ayesha
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Ayesha » 6 Dec 2012, 10:10am

Erudin wrote:Well they set out to shock and polarize and they succeeded. Is this what documentary television has descended to on the BBC? I'd rather watch The Ascent of Man on YouTube.

From: Leopard Films Doc to Air on BBC One By Joanna Padovano

Todd Austin, the chief creative officer at Leopard Films and executive producer of the film, commented: "This timely documentary highlights a growing problem on Britain's roads as the recent incidents involving Bradley Wiggins and GB Cycling coach Shane Sutton have shown. The documentary's unique approach in employing user-generated content to take the viewer to the heart of the story adds incredible drama to the piece. The show will polarize views across the nation and hopefully generate debate and BBC One is the perfect home for this insightful and sometimes shocking film."


Are you sure?

Of 118 people who work in a motor industry research and development engineering office in the Midlands of England, ONE watched ‘The War on Britain’s roads’.
It wasn’t me.

I walked round and asked my colleagues. I wasn’t approached be anyone before I took my poll about an hour ago.
Such was the interest.

What HAS been spoken about this morning is:
The future of Coventry City FC,
The lack of gritting on Coventry’s side roads.

The ladies in the canteen, who know I’m a cycle commuter didn’t mention that TV programme that was shown last night.

On any non cycle activist’s radar, that programme passed without a blip.

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Velocio
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Velocio » 6 Dec 2012, 10:11am

661-Pete wrote:Another point - I would never, ever, wilfully touch another vehicle whilst cycling. Except as a last-ditch life-saving measure - e.g. to fend myself off from a collision! Courtesy counts for a lot in good road sense. And thumping a car roof with a gloved hand is a good precursor to fisticuffs....


...I was at the traffic lights at a crossroads intendending to go forward when the lights changed ...a car came up on my right and I noticed he was indicating to turn left ...as soon as the lights went green I pushed off giving no indication I wished to turn left ...the car swirved left ...he could clearly see me and my intention ...I had to bang my fist ...hard ...on the passenger side window ...to get him to stop knocking me down ...sometimes ...NEEDS MUST!!!

:)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Dec 2012, 10:13am

Ayesha wrote:On any non cycle activist’s radar, that programme passed without a blip.

There are probably also the "anti-cyclist" activists...

But I hope you're right. Without any professional comment it was as informative as youtube.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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meic
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby meic » 6 Dec 2012, 10:28am

I havent seen the program but I did hear the chat on Radio4's breakfast news. The one "commentator" brought in to be against cyclists, said that it was "male gladiators" who go out looking for trouble. She was able to justify this by the way they get dressed up in helmets and lycra*.

So all of you who wear helmets and hi-viz (as suggested in the Highway Code) are just looking for trouble.
Strange thing is that trouble seems to find me, wearing ordinary clothes and no helmet.

Also cyclists are a problem, she can not cross the road ALL DAY because of the hordes of cyclists, racing on the road at 30mph! Which is much too fast and very dangerous.

I think that in the propaganda battle we are on to a loser as what is the norm for motorised traffic is unacceptable for mere cyclists. The words applied to us are smug and arrogant which are not exactly criminal attributes. I dont have a problem with any 4x4 driver who cruises past me at a distance being all smug and arrogant in his warm, dry expensive status symbol, so long as he doesnt endanger, harm or threaten me.

*I suspect the distinction between lycra and hi-viz may be lost on her.
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