Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

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661-Pete
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Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby 661-Pete » 22 Nov 2012, 9:09pm

Hello, re-joining the forum scene after a long break. With an 'incident' to report. :shock:

But I got off lucky - this time. First time this has happened to me in years.

Yes, there was I pootling along a straight road this evening, all decked out in hi-viz and with front light blazing (not a HID I'm afraid, but still a good solid 10W of illumination). No probs you might think - except that this cabbie, coming towards me, sees fit to turn right into a minor side road, straight across my path. Bang! I go straight over the handlebar and over part of his wing, and land on my nose. Nose was bleeding copiously and is probably broken (it feels rather sore now) but apart from that I check out OK - I think.

Car wasn't going at any speed but maybe a bit faster for the corner than I'd have driven it (a taxi - remember). I was probably doing about 15-18 mph on the straight. Most of the speed of impact was probably mine.

To do him credit, the cabbie was cooperative, he gave me his name and even called the police himself. He made no admission of guilt, naturally, but nor was he confrontational (there's a surprise, considering other cabbies I've met). I gave vent to a lot of words I can't use on this forum :? , at the moment of impact, but I'd cooled off when it came to talking to the driver and the witnesses.

Yes: I've got witnesses: two women in a car following: the passenger saw it all and spoke to the police. Someone called an ambulance and then handed the phone with me, I went through a long and tedious conversation over the phone with the ambulance controller but the ambulance itself never showed up (we got tired of waiting and the police said it was OK for me to go home, they called off the ambulance). Oh well, there wasn't much they could have done other than clean me up a bit (blood everywhere).

When I got talking to the cop myself, she asked me, what was my opinion? At this point I almost broke down. I said, it can't be anything less than driving Without Due Care surely. But - it's a cabbie standing there, it's his livelihood, what's going to happen to his job (especially if he's already got points...)?

But of course I shouldn't have crumbled should I? I pulled myself together, and said to the cop, yes of course I've got to finger him for a driving offence. The cop seemed to agree. My civic duty - what? After all, if he drives like that again the next cyclist might not be so lucky. In fact it might be a cyclist in a wooden box - maybe one of you guys. Yes I've got to shop him, despite his willingness to cooperate. I did the right thing, I hope.

One of the cops took some photos of my face. Good hard evidence that. I said, if I started feeling worse I'd get to A&E. They said they'd get in touch. So then I walked home (it was a little over a mile). My missus came to meet me. I feel OK now.

I don't think there's any more I can do. The cops seem to be serious about it. And I've got the name of the witness.

Thanks for reading.
Pete.
Last edited by 661-Pete on 8 May 2013, 8:20am, edited 1 time in total.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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gaz
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby gaz » 22 Nov 2012, 9:56pm

Welcome to the forum, sorry to hear your news.

Things to do next:-

1. Instruct a lawyer.

2. See a doctor/nurse.

661-Pete wrote:One of the cops took some photos of my face. Good hard evidence that.

Indeed it is, but it may be hard to get hold of and it's not as good as a properly recorded professional medical assesment of your injuries. At the very least take your own pictures.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

How's the bike?
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

eileithyia
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby eileithyia » 23 Nov 2012, 7:49am

+1.

Get a cycle accident solicitor/CTC appointed one if a member.
Get those injuries looked at, yes acouple of hours or more at A&E might be a pain in the proverbials, but if injuries show up later or if injuries take a long time to heal could be time well spent.
Yes it is his livelihood so he should drive with more care.... and this message needs to get there to cabbies, the threat to their livelihood should be a real threat to ensure they drive far better.
The next person may not be so lucky as you and get off so lightly.

I was knocked off in similar circumstances, unlike your driver they tried to wriggle out of it and it was later revealed that the driver was too young ot be driving as a cabbie on that particular insurance policy, unlike you I was not so lucky with my injuries and was off work for nearly 6months, fortunately we managed to get our witness statements despite problems with the police at the time.

Glad to hear it was not too serious, and welcome to the forum.
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661-Pete
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby 661-Pete » 23 Nov 2012, 2:02pm

Thanks for the good wishes, I posted a longer reply just now but it didn't get through I think.
Am off to A&E now to get checked over. Will report later. Feeling more or less alright.
Bike seems to be more or less OK but it needs a good eyeballing in good daylight. Good old steel frames! (Bianchi road bike, 1990s vintage). Front wheel a bit out of true.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby 661-Pete » 24 Nov 2012, 6:00pm

Update - nothing much to report. Went to A&E but they weren't very interested, said it was all superficial. Healing up nicely anyway. I must be more bulletproof than I thought I was!

I'm now realising all the things I failed to do at the scene. Got the driver's name but not his home address or phone number, just the card of his minicab company. Got the car reg. but not its description (don't even remember what make it was). Spoke to the police but didn't get an incident number. Didn't get any insurance details. And you know why? It was that wretched ambulance control person! They kept me on the phone for a good half hour asking a whole stream of inane and totally irrelevant questions just to tick off boxes, on a bad line too (I was using someone else's phone). While I was distracted everything else was happening around me and I wasn't taking part. Eventually the driver's mates showed up and helped bump-start his car (the battery had gone flat).

And the ambulance didn't even turn up.

A tip for anyone caught in similar circumstances, if you're satisfied you're not badly hurt. Refuse to talk to the ambulance service over the phone. I don't think you have any legal obligation to. Say you'll talk when they show up and not before.

And another weird development. Later that evening I got a call on my mobile. Not from the police as I'd expected. From someone claiming to be "the brother in law" of the driver. Asking how I was and what I proposed to do next. Once I realise what was going on I refused to speak to him. My question: how the hell did he get hold of my mobile number, and how did he know my name?. Certainly I didn't tell the cabbie any of this. Nor have I ever - in my recollection - used that particular minicab firm: certainly its number isn't stored on my mobile. I did tell the ambulance people my name, using the cabbie's phone. Was it possible he had an app running to record my conversation? Or the police may have passed on this information. Should they have?

Having had a couple of days to reflect, I'm beginning to feel this is messier and uglier than I thought. Certainly I'm going to press charges against that driver, no question about it, I want him off the road if possible. If the police don't contact me in the next day or two I shall chase it up. I'm going to ask the police how that guy could have got my phone number. If the police passed it on without my permission, should I go to the IPCC? At the moment my head is spinning.

Haven't got round to checking the bike yet - it's been p***ing down with rain all day.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

thirdcrank
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Nov 2012, 6:52pm

661-Pete wrote:.... Having had a couple of days to reflect, ....


I'd recommend a bit more reflection and decide what you want as the outcome.

A few miscellaneous points in no particular order:

These days, I think it's unlikely there would be a prosecution following a collision if the person on the receiving end was unwilling/ reluctant to give evidence. On the other hand, a burning desire to see the other party prosecuted isn't going to guarantee that it will happen. A prosecution needs evidence and amongst other things, that means statements. If the police haven't taken a statement from you already (and the fact that you were badly shaken would be a good reason for not taking one at the time) and if they don't get in touch soon to arrange to take one, it may well be that this has already been marked "No action."

If your injuries really are only superficial, then any compo will be at the superficial level. If so, your case may not fall within the criteria for a "no win, no fee" arrangement.

I think the ambulance controllers talking things through is normal. Afaik, The idea is that they may be able to give valauable, possibly life saving advice over the phone. They are also able to deploy an appropriate level of response. ie The paramedics are sent to cases where they are really needed.

You are obviously still in a bit of a daze, which is hardly surprising. I'd try to think hard about possible innocent explanations for the unexpected phone call. If you are sure there's been misconduct, a complaint may well be the best way forward but any investigator needs evidence, not conjecture.

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661-Pete
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby 661-Pete » 24 Nov 2012, 9:31pm

Fair enough but I'm hoping for a favourable outcome. And I think I'm back to my 'normal self' whatever that means, apart from being puzzled about this unexpected phone call. Anyway I'll be trying out the CTC help line (I am a member).
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby 661-Pete » 28 Nov 2012, 1:24pm

I have an update - got a call from the plod this morning. They are going to ask for statements from myself and two witnesses (promising!) and hinted that there might be a prosecution for Driving Without Due Care and Attention, or alternatively do some sort of 'deal' with the driver to send him on a Driver Awareness Course.

Would the latter be in exchange for him not getting points? Obviously I have no idea whether the driver already has points, although if he habitually drives in the manner he did with me, he's more than likely to. :evil: If he gets disqualified he may lose his livelihood, although it would be his own fault.

Which is the better option? Anyone been on one of these courses, or know someone who has?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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meic
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby meic » 28 Nov 2012, 1:34pm

I know people who have been through those courses and they are instead of getting your points but can cost a working driver like a cabby more than the fine would, in lost wages.

My friend did mention that there was a cabby on her course, who knew more than the instructor, who he said didnt "live in the real world" and just did what he had to to comply and left with as least as bad an attitude as he arrived with. Though of course he kept his views secret from those who were assessing him.

The not so bad news is that they only get one chance on this "get out" and that now insurance companies are starting to ask about them. Though mine didnt when I renewed yesterday.
Yma o Hyd

martinohr
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Re: Hello ... and it happened to me.

Postby martinohr » 28 Nov 2012, 4:16pm

having been involved in similar incidents over the years in which I was hugely un-assertive due to being shaken up/minor injuries I rehearsed the approach I will take to any future accidents

1) insist that police and ambulance attend, refusing to move until the ambulance arrives and I'm assessed for injuries by paramedic; hopefully blocking the road to expedite their attendance
2) insist that the police treat it as a crime if possible rather than a mere road traffic accident, if I'm in high-vis and brightly lit then the motorist definitely did see me and choose to make contact, I'm going to insist that it is a deliberate act
3) ensure the police take statements at the scene and establish the identity of the driver, arresting the driver if they are unable to do so at scene
4) obtain an incident number and take a record of the names and numbers of the police in attendance
5) on my return home instruct a solicitor to claim damages for loss of use of my bike, loss of earnings etc
6) follow up with the police for a weekly update

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661-Pete
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Re: Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby 661-Pete » 8 May 2013, 8:24am

'Bumping' this thread as I now have a closure :D .

Got a letter from the police yesterday: the errant cabbie has indeed attended and completed a Driver Awareness Course, at his own expense, and the police have warned him about his driving behaviour (n.b. the letter doesn't say "cautioned"). The police say they have now closed the file.

I think that's reasonable, in the circumstances. I didn't pursue any claim against the driver, because, to be honest, I suffered very little damage. His 'card is marked', and he'll be 'known to the police' from now on, if he wasn't before (he has a rather unusual name, which all helps). Let's hope he is one driver that doesn't re-offend. In which case, sorted. :wink:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

james01
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Re: Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby james01 » 8 May 2013, 8:53am

Not really compensation for your injuries and inconvenience, but it's at least a better outcome than many victims experience.

reohn2
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Re: Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby reohn2 » 8 May 2013, 10:16am

One thing that disturbs me about "Driver Awareness" courses is that to attend one the driver admits to not having had "awareness" before the incident,which to my mind means driving without due care and attention.
It always reminds me of the now defunct Roman Catholic practice of buying off sins(the correct term escapes me ATM).
The result is,no points,no record,and all for £80.
A bargain if you ask me.
If the guilty party(he's admitted guilt by attending the course)was convicted,fined with points and had to attend the course (paid by himself)there'd be less repeat offenders.
It's bending over backwards by the judicial system toward the offender IMHO.
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661-Pete
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Re: Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby 661-Pete » 8 May 2013, 11:10am

reohn2 wrote:The result is,no points,no record,and all for £80.
I was told (in an earlier letter) that it would cost him £175.

To my mind this bears comparison with the 'Birmingham Road Rage' affair which was discussed here recently, and was resolved by 'community resolution' - an unsatisfactory outcome in the opinion of many (including me). But the big difference is, the offender in that case deliberately went out of his way to cause harm and injury. That case certainly should have come to court, no argument.

But in my case I am not suggesting that the driver was deliberately careless. He will have been delivered of a stern kick up the backside and I am hoping this will have had an effect on him. And he must surely have been worried about his livelihood. As I said, if he never makes this mistake again, job done. We want loads of good, careful drivers on these roads of ours, not punished drivers...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Elizabethsdad
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Re: Hit by cabbie - RESOLVED

Postby Elizabethsdad » 8 May 2013, 1:47pm

Given that you were injured and there presumably in shock at the time of the incident the approach of the police on the scene seems a bit questionable in trying to get to make a statement or decision on the spot. As others have said, that the cabbie attended an awareness course is more action than a lot other similar cases have had but is still getting off very lightly especially as you did not pursue a damages claim. If you feel the matter is settled to your satisfaction OK, but I am worried that it might be seen by some as setting a precedent for future similar incidents.