Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
User avatar
cycleruk
Posts: 5251
Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 9:30pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby cycleruk » 3 Dec 2012, 8:04pm

Once was MTBeing (mountain biking. :wink: ) when one of the bunch had a puncture. Unfortunately the wheel was equipped with nuts instead of a QR (quick release. :wink: ). None of us carried spanners so we had to wait while the puncture was mended in situ. :? :( .
Good job it wasn't raining. Don't remember if he had the bike upside down or not. :mrgreen:
There's no such thing as a tailwind.
It's either a headwind, or you're going well.

User avatar
PaulCumbria
Posts: 461
Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 1:52pm
Location: Kendal

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby PaulCumbria » 3 Dec 2012, 9:27pm

Recumbents tend not to do upside-down very well. I just nudge the bike off its supporting triangle of wheel/propstand/wheel, lifting the flat off the ground, and get on with it. Another plus for propstands.

rand
Posts: 318
Joined: 5 Mar 2008, 6:38pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby rand » 4 Dec 2012, 8:55am

PaulCumbria wrote:Recumbents tend not to do upside-down very well. I just nudge the bike off its supporting triangle of wheel/propstand/wheel, lifting the flat off the ground, and get on with it. Another plus for propstands.


I was hoping to make a simple stand for rear wheel removal for my recumbent trike but just haven't found the time.
Is it possible for you to post details of your propstand, with a picture of it and price etc?

rand.

iviehoff
Posts: 2411
Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby iviehoff » 4 Dec 2012, 9:20am

No doubt the same cyclists consider fitting mudguards to be social death. They certainly don't have rear derailleurs hanging off hangers that clamp between the bolt and the doesn't-drop-out. Nor do they have to pull the forks apart with both hands while kicking the wheel out with their foot, because axle lengths on modern wheels are not those that old frames were built for. Nor do they have to carefully position the axle in the drop out as they tighten up the bolts with a spanner, so that the wheel is central and aligned. Nor do they have Reelights clamped between bolt and doesn't-drop-out, adding to the complication of the tightening task. And many modern bikes have lugs on their doesn't-drop-out to make sure it is indeed a doesn't-drop-out in when the bolt (or quick release even) loosens accidentally. These add up to a great many reasons why it is close to impossible to remove or replace a wheel on many bicycles while it is in its normal vertical orientation, unless you have a maintenance stand. But these are the bicycles most people ride.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9222
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Dec 2012, 11:08am

iviehoff wrote:Nor do they have to pull the forks apart with both hands while kicking the wheel out with their foot, because axle lengths on modern wheels are not those that old frames were built for.
I presume you're referring to the rear wheel. It is possible to "cold-set" a steel frame so as to accept modern hubs without needing brute force every time. See here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
Don't try this with an aluminium frame, and of course never ever with carbon! :shock: But provided the increase in spacing is not too much, you should be able, with care, to achieve a workable result.

As regards the snobbery in the cycling community - well don't we all know about that? Especially prevalent in the cycling forums??? :? Enough said I think.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

iviehoff
Posts: 2411
Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby iviehoff » 4 Dec 2012, 12:33pm

661-Pete wrote:I presume you're referring to the rear wheel. It is possible to "cold-set" a steel frame so as to accept modern hubs without needing brute force every time. See here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Thanks for that, I had wondered how it was done, and I learn that apparently it is fairly straightforward to do it myself. Although actually some of the most intractible problems I have had have been with front forks, which sounds trickier. I've still got a wheel half stuck into a front fork on an old frame it just wouldn't go into, and wouldn't come out either, where I'd got it to.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17572
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby Vorpal » 4 Dec 2012, 8:54pm

iviehoff wrote:
661-Pete wrote:I presume you're referring to the rear wheel. It is possible to "cold-set" a steel frame so as to accept modern hubs without needing brute force every time. See here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Thanks for that, I had wondered how it was done, and I learn that apparently it is fairly straightforward to do it myself. Although actually some of the most intractible problems I have had have been with front forks, which sounds trickier. I've still got a wheel half stuck into a front fork on an old frame it just wouldn't go into, and wouldn't come out either, where I'd got it to.

It does require some care. Here are links to a couple of previous threads.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66683&p=569632

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65924&p=562964
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

pga
Posts: 260
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 9:40pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby pga » 5 Dec 2012, 1:19am

Never heard of the BLRC! For those of you with no awareness of the history of British cycling, and sadly probably no desire to know, the British League of Racing Cyclists (BLRC) was set up in 1942 to promote road racing on the roads of Britain. Up to then the NCU (National Cyclists Union) and the RTTC (Road Time Trials Council) had conspired to keep road racing off our roads, the former only promoting on the track or on closed circuits while the latter only promoted time trials in the small hours. This background made it difficult for British road cyclists to challenge the continentals. It has taken to this year to finally caught up with the continentals. The early pioneering work of the BLRC played a significant role in this, although other factors have played a part.

The deferential policies of the CTC had a similar adverse effect on British cycling with its inability to stand up for cyclists's rights during the same period. As recently as the 1970's the CTC Reform Group had to push the CTC to take a stronger stance to protect cyclists interests.

There is more to cycling than riding a bike. A study of the history of cycling in Britain is worthy of anyones time. It might explain why some of us are more protective of cyclists's rights than others and why cycling has and is receiving such poor treatment from officialdom, the media and many of the general public.

tonythompson
Posts: 259
Joined: 6 Aug 2010, 1:32pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby tonythompson » 5 Dec 2012, 8:51am

Thanks PGA for that - always interesting to learn more about cycling - however, my interest has always been in long distance touring and never was into racing. I also collect vintage bicycles going back to the 1890's and enjoy researching more of the social side and how they were used in peoples everyday life.

Sorry never really got interested in the racing side :oops: What is so wonderful about cycling is it caters for everyone's interest and taste so you shouldn't be too hard on anyone who doesn't share you particular interest.

ps once raced (on my touring bike) in the Tour of the Gila in which I came 2nd last. Lance A was in the race, so now we know what he was up to, can I claim a victory over him? :D
Crossed Oz Perth to Adelaide to highlight Barrett's Disease http://www.tonystravels.com

Anglian
Posts: 66
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 1:22pm
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby Anglian » 6 Dec 2012, 2:24pm

meic wrote:Who exactly decided this was social death for a cyclist?


Jobst Brandt, partially: http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/upside-down.html

Nothing can be done to a bicycle upside-down that cannot be done better with it right-side-up, except to spin the rear wheel while hand cranking the pedals. In fact, that is what most children do when they haven't anything better to do with their bicycles.

Jobst Brandt has many strong opinions about cycling. Sheldon Brwn didn't always agree with him.

Warmest regards,
Anglian

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby meic » 6 Dec 2012, 2:37pm

Thanks for the information.

My bike doesnt seem to be like his though.

Not only does it make spinning the wheel by hand cranking easier, it also allows me to lubricate and adjust the deraileurs, spin the wheels to inspect for cuts and foreign objects, to check for rim trueness and wheel bearing condition, brake rub and application and so many other things which, if I try with the bike standing up, tends to result in the bike falling over or the wheels not spinning due to them touching the floor. :lol:

Either that or I have to do everything one handed.
Yma o Hyd

mrjemm
Posts: 2933
Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 4:33pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby mrjemm » 6 Dec 2012, 3:55pm

Dunno about Jobst Brand (I know who he is, but that's about it), but whilst Mr S Brown certainly wrote a lot of useful stuff on his site, his opinions are rather specific and I would not always take as gospel.

Maybe all things can be done other ways. I find upside down easier at times. But then again, other times laid down is easier.

As for social death... Ha. I don't use mudguards on a touring bike. Touring. Shame on me. I don't use clippy onny pedals either. Philistine!

axel_knutt
Posts: 1502
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Turning bike upside down. Social death for a cyclist..

Postby axel_knutt » 10 Dec 2012, 2:43pm

drossall wrote:
geocycle wrote:I've long since stopped trying to keep up with REAL cyclists who don't remove there wheels at all when fixing a puncture. :wink:

Now that one really puzzles me. It's so easy to remove a wheel that I can't really see why you'd struggle with leaving your wheel in place, except on a few specialised bikes.


I used to mend my punctures that way until my eyes deteriorated to the point where I couldn't find the hole without inflating the tube. It saves getting your fingers greasy off the chain.

One of the mapholder brackets I made stuck up too high to turn the bike upside down, so that didn't last long before I remade it. Nowadays I check the handlebar furniture height using a staight edge from the saddle to the lever hoods. Generally, I only lay the bike down if I can't find somewhere clean and flat enough.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche