Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
stewartpratt
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Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby stewartpratt » 15 Jan 2013, 1:43pm

AndyB wrote:If comfort is an issue (and it will be), I'd be wary of dropping from 32 to 23 mm tyres. Whatever, make sure you've done enough on the new lightweight road bike to be sure you can sit on it for the required time - in many ways the more relaxed fit of a typical tourer is better then the normal 'road' bike. Lets face it, at the speeds you will be sustaining for 240 miles, the aerodynamic advantage of the typical low position on road bikes is negligible.


Hm. I think it's rather subjective - there are flipsides to most of those points. Personally I much prefer narrow tyres; IME/O good ones roll quicker and aren't any less comfortable - at least on a light bike; a heavier bike would be a little different. The more upright position of a tourer can be harder on the backside and the back than a flatter position. And if you're moving through the air for a long time, any aerodynamic advantage is worth at least considering (plus long distance doesn't necessarily mean going extremely slowly; my moving average for 200+ mile rides is still 80% of the maximum average I can hit for <30 mile rides).

Ayesha
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Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby Ayesha » 15 Jan 2013, 3:05pm

Your greatest enemy is fatigue. A steady 10 mph average 240 mile trip is gonna take 24 hours.
Expect an average power outlay of a quarter of that you could maintain for an hour. A quarter the power means half the speed, so if you usually manage 20 miles in an hour ( evens ), 10 mph is your realistic expected speed for 24 hours.

A 400km Audaxer should expect to finish a 25 mile TT in better than 1 hr 15mins. Some can ride a 1hr 5min ‘25’.

Delaying fatigue is done by recruiting as many bundles of muscle fibre as possible during training. Varying position on the saddle and standing up can do this, coupled with a variety of power demands from downhill fast sprints to uphill slogs. This raises the old saying of ‘getting the miles in’.

On the ride, you can vary your riding position to use the bundles of fibres ready to work, letting the others rest.

Aerodynamics.
Any reduction in aerodynamic drag will be welcomed if you encounter a headwind.

lucaltmann
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Joined: 8 Jul 2009, 9:31pm

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby lucaltmann » 15 Jan 2013, 3:16pm

Hey donnieban, sounds fun, I cycled London to Paris last summer, completing the 270 miles in just under 26 hours and it rained most of the way and don’t think I would have made it if I hadn’t changed my cycling shorts 3 times. We had a support car so had the luxury of catering for all eventualities but, dry cycling shorts, water and granola bars were my life saver.

We had breaks of 5 minutes every hour and 2 longer breaks of 20 minutes on top of 2hr30 on the ferry

AndyB
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Location: Lancashire

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby AndyB » 15 Jan 2013, 6:05pm

stewartpratt wrote:
AndyB wrote:If comfort is an issue (and it will be), I'd be wary of dropping from 32 to 23 mm tyres. Whatever, make sure you've done enough on the new lightweight road bike to be sure you can sit on it for the required time - in many ways the more relaxed fit of a typical tourer is better then the normal 'road' bike. Lets face it, at the speeds you will be sustaining for 240 miles, the aerodynamic advantage of the typical low position on road bikes is negligible.


Hm. I think it's rather subjective - there are flipsides to most of those points. Personally I much prefer narrow tyres; IME/O good ones roll quicker and aren't any less comfortable - at least on a light bike; a heavier bike would be a little different. The more upright position of a tourer can be harder on the backside and the back than a flatter position. And if you're moving through the air for a long time, any aerodynamic advantage is worth at least considering (plus long distance doesn't necessarily mean going extremely slowly; my moving average for 200+ mile rides is still 80% of the maximum average I can hit for <30 mile rides).


Actually, I agree with much of what you say (but I would comment that my tourer has bars slightly below saddle height, and I ride for prolonged periods on the drops). I really just wanted to suggest that I wouldn't expect a new road bike to make the ride much easier than on the tourer, and that it's important to make sure that whichever bike is going to be used really is comfortable for long rides.

thirdcrank
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Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Jan 2013, 6:58pm

I'd be very wary of making late changes to equipment, position etc. I think that this can sometimes be a bit overplayed, in that most people are pretty adaptable, so unless something is actually interfering with riding it will often be OK in the sense that it's not a showstopper, but overplayed or real, an irritation is an irritation. It's very easy, especially if you are riding a long way on your own to let things get a bit out of proportion when you are tiring. You don't want to be getting obsessed about having made a mistake over tyre size with 30 or 40 miles still to ride.

stewartpratt
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Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby stewartpratt » 15 Jan 2013, 8:42pm

AndyB wrote:I really just wanted to suggest that I wouldn't expect a new road bike to make the ride much easier than on the tourer


Sure. I just wanted to suggest that I would :) ... Of course, the OP could fall into either camp.

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meic
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Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby meic » 15 Jan 2013, 8:51pm

If time was unlimited, I would ride on my 35mm tyre tourer.
However I stand more chance of getting around a 400k in time on my 28mm tyre wheels.

Unfortunately I probably can not stay on my "road bike" for 400k without shattering my wrists, so I have the double setback of the slower bike and the extended distance compared to a 200k.
Yma o Hyd

donnieban
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Joined: 21 May 2011, 10:39am
Location: Isle of Skye

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby donnieban » 15 Jan 2013, 9:15pm

Thank you all for the advice folks.

Bike choice
AndyB & stewartpratt- I guess I may stick to the steel tourer but will swap the tyres over as the Bontrager Hardcase are about done. Any thoughts on a comfier tyre option, possibly run at a lower pressure? Highland roads are quite narrow so the traffic heavies purge the road edges of the nasties that can cause problems on roads with a cycle shoulder where the debris otherwise gathers so bullet proof tyres aren't quite as vital.

Saddle
Thanks eilethyia & meic & The Mechanic. The B17 is comfy so will stay with as is. Go commando always and will either stick to sudocreme or may try something more specific. beachcomber cheers I identify with your comments about the saddle nose angle being too high. will lower it, had some issues with slipping forwards previously. Ayesha -I will invest in some decent shorts but pit stops are def easier with non bibs.

Lights
LollyKat I will have limited need for lights hopefully, given daylight between 06:00 and 23:00.

Breaks
Thirdcrank - yes I think a 2am start would be the way to go. Company would be great but sadly unlikely unless I invent someone as suggested by Ayesha :shock: Natural Ankling -20 min breaks every 3 hours seems sensible and on a par with lucalmann's suggested 5 min in every hour. Ayesha I respect your advice about fatigue. Last years elation and my comfortable state at the end are relative. I didn't eat enough, but I had reserves. I maintained hydration, the last 70 miles were in lightish winds, the scenery was new to me on a bike at least and yes lucaltmann I really enjoyed it but doing twice the distance...

Food & drink stops
24 hour filling stations are a bit thin on the ground but don't create a problem. I will have some food & drink & batteries and spare tubes stashed at a half way point that will serve me on both legs. Support car probably not. How long to stop for at 120 miles? - proper meal time 45 mins so that would be my answer? Presumably better to not stop any longer?

donnieban

stewartpratt
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Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby stewartpratt » 15 Jan 2013, 9:48pm

donnieban wrote:Any thoughts on a comfier tyre option, possibly run at a lower pressure?


I swear by the Conti GP4000S. Fast and supple compared to others I've used. They're not for low pressures - they come in 23 and 25 and I'm 14 stone - but they are smooth nonetheless.

Brucey
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Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby Brucey » 15 Jan 2013, 10:08pm

^ the conti GP4000s has been shown in tests to have a very low rolling resistance. If it is in a width that is wide enough for you to be comfortable, too, it is a good choice if you are trying to conserve your effort.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

donnieban
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Location: Isle of Skye

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby donnieban » 15 Jan 2013, 11:10pm

Brucey wrote:^ the conti GP4000s has been shown in tests to have a very low rolling resistance. If it is in a width that is wide enough for you to be comfortable, too, it is a good choice if you are trying to conserve your effort.

cheers



I would prefer to stick with the 32 width if there are other tyre recommendations out there for a touring bike in an audax context

donnieban

LollyKat
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Location: Scotland

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby LollyKat » 15 Jan 2013, 11:55pm

Have a look at RibMo tyres - they are robust but not too heavy, roll well and are very comfortable. They also grip well in the wet. I use 28mm on my audax bike and love them; my husband usethe 32mm on his tourer and swears by them.

donnieban
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Location: Isle of Skye

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby donnieban » 16 Jan 2013, 12:24am

Hi Lollykat,

The ribmo is an option I was thinking about. Some reviews suggest they are over engineered? The other option I am debating is the Gatorskin Hardshell?

Undecided...comfort or protection?

db

stewartpratt
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Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby stewartpratt » 16 Jan 2013, 7:26am

IMO: I'd say efficiency first, comfort second, and I wouldn't worry about puncture protection.

AndyB
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Location: Lancashire

Re: Long day ride advice - 240 miles

Postby AndyB » 16 Jan 2013, 8:40am

Comfort and efficiency are quite closely related, and I'd also go for those over puncture protection. The GP4000s are very good; I've also used the Grand Bois 26mm tyres (Cerf?) which are great (although I got them half price) - I imagine the 30mm versions could be perfect.