Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

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Geriatrix
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Geriatrix » 22 Jan 2013, 1:16pm

kwackers wrote:In the past (when I had less respect for my bike) I've thrown it over fences. I must confess it never occurred to me that it might then became an aeroplane. :oops:

And you a pilot? :D
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kwackers
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby kwackers » 22 Jan 2013, 1:28pm

Geriatrix wrote:
kwackers wrote:In the past (when I had less respect for my bike) I've thrown it over fences. I must confess it never occurred to me that it might then became an aeroplane. :oops:

And you a pilot? :D

Not then I wasn't.
(I'm not sure having a pilots license really makes me a pilot - perhaps it's time to subvert this thread to 'what is a cyclist' :lol: )

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Mick F
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Mick F » 22 Jan 2013, 2:14pm

Funny you should mention that! :D
News item a week or two ago said that a 14 year old boy had "become Britain's youngest pilot".

What a load of tosh. Just coz he's learned to fly, it doesn't make him a pilot - he's still at school!
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Jan 2013, 4:16pm

While this debate has been going on, something has occurred to me which which may explain why walking and pushing a bike may now be considered legally OK in some quarters, when once it wasn't. Here's something from another thread:-

... .

s 329 Highways Act 1980:- (...)

329 Further provision as to interpretation. In this Act, except where the context otherwise requires—
(...)
“footway” means a way comprised in a highway which also comprises a carriageway, being a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only; (...)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/329


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71617&p=625585#p625585

I don't know what the previous legislation, superseded by this legislation said, but 1980 is about the right time for the changes in the HC etc. Just a thought. If the issue did get as far as the big wigs, it might not be conclusive, since the definition only apllies to the 1980 Act, as the first bit makes clear.

Ellieb
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Ellieb » 22 Jan 2013, 4:57pm

What this thread needs is someone to find a traffic light junction with a policeman standing by it: Push the bike through the red light while yelling " You'll never take me alive copper!!!" & the subsequent court case will allow all the arguments to be put forward in a court of law.

thirdcrank
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Jan 2013, 5:22pm

Ellieb wrote:What this thread needs is someone to find a traffic light junction with a policeman standing by it: Push the bike through the red light while yelling " You'll never take me alive copper!!!" & the subsequent court case will allow all the arguments to be put forward in a court of law.


Just make sure it's not somebody from the Diplomatic Protection Group. :wink:

Ayesha
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Ayesha » 22 Jan 2013, 5:30pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Ellieb wrote:What this thread needs is someone to find a traffic light junction with a policeman standing by it: Push the bike through the red light while yelling " You'll never take me alive copper!!!" & the subsequent court case will allow all the arguments to be put forward in a court of law.


Just make sure it's not somebody from the Diplomatic Protection Group. :wink:


Or the right Honourable Member for Sutton Coldfield. "You'll never take me alive, you ****ing pleb."

Shootist
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Shootist » 22 Jan 2013, 6:18pm

Ellieb wrote:What this thread needs is someone to find a traffic light junction with a policeman standing by it: Push the bike through the red light while yelling " You'll never take me alive copper!!!" & the subsequent court case will allow all the arguments to be put forward in a court of law.


But do stop if he replies "I don't intend to." :shock:
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Lusting my Pinnarello
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby Lusting my Pinnarello » 28 Jan 2013, 2:40pm

Mind blow alert

What if I was to "drive" my wheel barrow through a red light either on the road/carriage way or pavement. Would I be slapped a ticket on the way to plant my carrots?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Jan 2013, 2:55pm

A little while ago somebody posted a link to some footage of road conditions 50 or 60 years ago. One of the the scenes in it showed a man pushing a handcart; he stopped at the traffic lights. (Obviously, he didn't want to go to heaven or hell, pushing a handcart. Boom, boom.)

=====================================================
Here's the link to the thread - even older than I thought: 1939.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47679

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gaz
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby gaz » 24 Feb 2013, 9:21pm

gaz wrote:I think that so far as wheeling a bike on the pavement that is as close to definitive as we may get, good find snibgo.


A further find, purely with regard to wheeling a bike on the pavement:-
http://www.hodology.com/resources/Notes ... ycling.pdf , Page 50.

In summary: when specifically questioned about the legal basis in the context of Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835, for advice in the Department of Transport publication "Cycle safe: Tips for Safer Cycling" of 1993 to wheel a cycle on the footway; the DoT considered the ruling in Crank v Brook to extrapolate to cover a cyclist wheeling a cycle on a footway (pavement adjacent to a road). This endorsement of wheeling a bike on the footway remains in Rule 77 of the current Highway Code.
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aprildavy
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby aprildavy » 24 Feb 2013, 10:24pm

What a load of tosh. Just coz he's learned to fly, it doesn't make him a pilot - he's still at school!

I'm afraid it does. I had my PPL when I was 17 and 3 months, in 6th year at school, at least 9 months before I had my driving license. Didn't stop me taxiing a Cessna past a live Trident jet or a Vanguard or two. Didn't stop me flying into an international airport. When in the air I was a pilot, subject to the Air Navigation Order and all the rules and reguaaltions surrounding that. The Air Navigation Order says that when you hold a PPL and are in command of an aircraft then you are the commander of the aircraft. More than once I cycled to the airport and went flying on my own. If a new driver is in a car drving along the road - he/she is a driver! Doesn't make any difference if they are at school.

My nephew is a pilot also. He is a First Officer on a well known airline. he is paid to fly now - he is a pilot. He was also a pilot when he was in the air when he was paying for his flying training.

I suspect you strongly under estimate the capabilites of some 14 year olds. Many these little girls you see on their iphones wandering up the road to school are very very proficient horse riders for example, plus they show maturity and decision making way beyond their age when in charge of more than 1/2 a ton of horse at considerable speeds.

For what it's worth. IMHO a person who cycles along the road, dismounts, pushes his bike past a red light on the pavement is a "cyclist pushing his bike on the pavement", in the same way as a rider leading their horse on a pavement is a "rider leading their horse on the pavement". Neither are a pedestrian pushing a bike or a horse unless they nicked it! Nor is a pedestrian pushing a car across a garage forecourt because he ran out of fule, he's a "driver who ran out of fuel! :D

thirdcrank
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Feb 2013, 11:22pm

gaz

A good find there. (To anybody else planning to read it, the page numbers are hidden in the footers. Once I'd worked that out it was a lot easier finding the relevant bit.)

It's interesting to see how the thought processes worked at the Ministry of Transport. I'd have to say that I'd not consider the men from the ministry to be a fount of legal knowledge, especially over something they seem to consider infra dig like cycling. Somewhere on here there's a thread with details of an exchange with me where I queried the basis of their advice that a a cyclist riding a bike in daylight (ie when lights were not required to be fitted) but who did have lights fitted was required by law to use them in poor daytime visibility such as fog. After quite a long period they agreed they were wrong and changed their publicity accordingly. Let's remember also that one edition of the Highway Code recommended flashing bike lamps when they were still illegal.

Incidentally, for reasons I've explained before, there's nothing to stop a cyclist riding across a zebra crossing (ie from kerb to kerb.) That doesn't make riding on the pavement legal.

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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby SilverBadge » 24 Feb 2013, 11:29pm

thirdcrank wrote:A little while ago somebody posted a link to some footage of road conditions 50 or 60 years ago. One of the the scenes in it showed a man pushing a handcart; he stopped at the traffic lights. (Obviously, he didn't want to go to heaven or hell, pushing a handcart. Boom, boom.)

=====================================================
Here's the link to the thread - even older than I thought: 1939.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47679
As child 40 years back I found it strange that the large petrol lawnmowers used by the council had registration plates, though they weren't sit-on designs.

TonyR
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Re: Red Lights - Pushing a Cycle and the Law

Postby TonyR » 24 Feb 2013, 11:40pm

aprildavy wrote:Nor is a pedestrian pushing a car across a garage forecourt because he ran out of fule, he's a "driver who ran out of fuel! :D


I think you might be sorely disappointed if you are pushing that car while over the blood alcohol limit. Case law definitely has you as a driver then.