Car drivers v. bikes

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
hexhome
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by hexhome »

900 :D
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NUKe
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by NUKe »

Grapsy are you being over sensetive, as to what constitiutes a near death experience, some of the things which you describe whilst they are examples of bad driving they don't neccessarily threaten your safety, going the wrong side of a mini roundabout for instance. A car overtaking on a blind bend, being further out would give the driver more visability of the bend than you have (although this is usually bad driving) .
From your own part you sound safe enough, 1m from the edge might be too near on some occasion and too far out on others. Judge your position on what you want to achieve sometimes on rural roads its worth taking the centre of the road you can then pull over to allow cars to pass once they are at your speed
On other suburban roads 1m from the kerb will leave just enough room for a car to squeeze past and being further over to the kerb will leave enough room for you both. You have to make re-evaluate position constantly and the sameroads may even present different hazards and require differnet actions at different times of day.
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Mark1978
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Mark1978 »

As for the cars overtaking on a blind bend, well I wouldn't personally fancy my chances when a head on crash between two cars happens right in front of me...
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by tykeboy2003 »

As for the cars overtaking on a blind bend, well I wouldn't personally fancy my chances when a head on crash between two cars happens right in front of me...


I suspect that the overtaking vehicle would try to avoid the head-on collision by swerving to his left, ie straight into your path. This may avoid the head-on but might result in the overtaking vehicle being hit down the driver's side thus being pushed even further into your path. Doesn't bear thinking about.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by [XAP]Bob »

meic wrote:
it's several lifetimes.between serious injuries for cyclists.


Which is actually quite a significant risk. Expressed in a different way, for any small group of cyclists one of you is going to cop it.

I cant believe that people really think that just having the chance that two out of three of you are going to get away with it means it can be called a safe activity.


CTC PDF wrote:Cycling isn’t a particularly high-risk activity:
o On average, 1 cyclist is killed on Britain’s roads for every 30 million miles travelled by cycle.
This equates to about 1 cycle fatality for around every 1200 times cycled round the world.
6

o CTC calculates that the general risk of injury from cycling in Great Britain is just 0.057
injuries per 1000 hours of cycling.
7
o Amateur league rugby sevens carries vastly greater risks – one academic worked out that
there were 283.5 injuries per 1000 hours of playing.
o According to another paper that looked at sports injuries, tennis is riskier than ‘outdoor
cycling’ (5 injuries per 1000 hours for tennis, 3.5 for cycling).
8
‘Rowing machine exercise’
came in at 6 injuries per 1000 hours.
o You are more likely to be injured in an hour of gardening than in an hour of cycling.
9



30 Million miles.
Take 5 thousand miles a year as a reasonable mileage??

that's 6 thousand years of cycling, so yes - in a "small" group of 6000 cyclists one is likely to cop it.

My understanding is that that stat is skewed by HGVs in London - so if you aren't in London and DO treat HGVs with extreme caution then you can probably reduce that significantly.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Mark1978
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Mark1978 »

As with all things risk you have to put it into some context. They were talking on the radio this morning about "The number of miles you can do in a particular mode of transport before you have a 1 in 1 million chance of being killed". Flying was the safest, by a very long way. Walking and motorcycling were the worst, cycling wasn't mentioned.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Mark1978 wrote:As with all things risk you have to put it into some context. They were talking on the radio this morning about "The number of miles you can do in a particular mode of transport before you have a 1 in 1 million chance of being killed". Flying was the safest, by a very long way. Walking and motorcycling were the worst, cycling wasn't mentioned.


Because cycling isn't considered transport.


That's probably another factor which changes your risk - are you doing sport or TRANsport.

When I commute by train I borrow a 3spd Brompton. I love it, my journey to the station is about 50% of my normal commute - so along roads I know well. The Brompton copes, although I get closer passes than I do on the 'bent it's not exactly dangerous.

The other end I have to cross a roundabout and I'm then on a lovely path by the river. No traffic for me - that's going to reduce the risk of serious injury (although the risk of drowning probably goes up)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Geriatrix
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Geriatrix »

tykeboy2003 wrote:I suspect that the overtaking vehicle would try to avoid the head-on collision by swerving to his left, ie straight into your path. This may avoid the head-on but might result in the overtaking vehicle being hit down the driver's side thus being pushed even further into your path. Doesn't bear thinking about.

I've had a few close calls like that.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
grapsy
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by grapsy »

OK, I was maybe going a bit far when saying that I have a "near death experience" every day, but certainly a close shave every day- being over-taken on blind bends on very narrow road, its only a matter of time before there's a car coming the other way, and (as mark1978 and tykeboy 2003 point out ) there's a very good chance you'll be involved and come off worst. Also, being over-taken by a fast-moving car giving you only a couple of feet, it only takes a pot-hole, ice, oil or sudden gust and its all over. I have cycled quite extensively in other areas (including central London) and have had much better experiences than locally in Herts. My commute is during rush hour so people rushing to and from work is a factor, but I still remain convinced that generally a large number of drivers behave outrageously. For sure I agree with the person who mentioned the interesting phenomenon that people in cars appear to be very negative towards cyclists, whereas when talking with people (many of whom drive cars), they are very positive.
Mark1978
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Mark1978 »

The same people who are tailgating you on the road and generally being aggressive to other car drivers are the same ones who are overtaking closely in my experience.

On Sundays a particular issue is old ladies I've found.
Pete Owens
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Pete Owens »

The vast majority of drivers are careful and actively trying to avoid us. Occasionally I encounter bad driving, but normally it is simply underestimation of my speed or of the road space I need, rather than any hostility towards cyclists. If you are experiencing this sort of thing on a daily basis on a short commute then either the population of Hertfordshire is somehow different from everywhere else, your route is on a uniquely badly designed road... or it might be worth thinking whether there is something about your style of riding that is encouraging this behaviour.
grapsy wrote:I have a 6 mile cycle journey to work in a semi-rural area of Hertfordshire along busy country lanes. I wear reflective clothing and have good lights. I cycle a good yard from the kerb and am as assertive as I dare be.

But this is as close as the kerb as it is advisable to ride and only where the road is sufficiently wide to permit safe overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic. Assertiveness is entirely about good communication and the message you give when adopting the secondary position as you describe is an invitation to overtake. If you are riding on country lanes then the chances are that the road will be so narrow that drivers will need to use the oncoming lane to overtake thus to wait till they can see a gap in the opposing traffic sufficient for them to complete a proper overtaking manoeuvre - the most effective way to make this obvious to them is to occupy the middle of the lane if you are unhappy about sharing it.

Note, I am not suggesting that you are in any way at fault. Drivers should be more aware of cyclists needs and not do the things that you describe. But there are things you can do to influence them and make life more pleasant for yourself.
Ayesha
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Ayesha »

A NDE, Near Death Experience, is when a medical team revive you with a defibrilator and spoil the chat you were having with your dead grandparents. A proper NDE is when you remember your dead grandfather told you the registration number of the truck which knocked you off your bike.
wdsfy
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by wdsfy »

Is this just me? I always dread the cycle commute in the rain, not due to the fact I will get wet but rather because in my experience motorists' driving skills decrease in the rain. This isn't simply a case of people not adjusting their driving to suit the conditions, although very few actually do this. I find that I am subjected to more impatient overtakes, MGIFs and close passes in the driving rain, especially when it is dark, than when the weather is dry. Is this because the conditions are so miserable that the only thing the motorists have in mind is getting to wherever they are going so they can be somewhere dry and warm and therefore show total disregard to anything that may slow them down?

I was wondering if anyone else agrees with this observation, or am I perhaps more sensitive while miserable myself?
Mark1978
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by Mark1978 »

Keep in mind that in the wet, especially in the dark and wet, motorists visibility is considerably reduced.
wdsfy
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Re: Car drivers v. bikes

Post by wdsfy »

Mark1978 wrote:Keep in mind that in the wet, especially in the dark and wet, motorists visibility is considerably reduced.


I absolutely accept that which is why I sport a "Christmas Tree" get up and adjust my riding style according to the conditions. I am speaking specifically about instances where I have most definitely been seen, but am still nevertheless disregarded, occurring less frequently when it is dry.
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