Road Rage Assault on Cyclist

[661-Pete]

My own view about helmet/cycle cameras is that I shan't be using one, any time, soon. I do actually have one - a cheapo ATC2000 bought several years ago. It was, I discovered, not of sufficient quality to record the positive side of cycling, let alone 'incidents' (and it's awkward to use). I've had it out on the bike, about three times all told, since I bought it: it's currently at the back of a drawer gathering dust. And there it stays.

Whilst there is certainly a case that such cameras (the newer, better quality ones I mean) could play an invaluable role in identifying and isolating dangers on our roads, they have aroused such hostility and misunderstanding, that I feel 'it ain't worth it'. This is not 1984...

As to punch-ups in public - well only last Friday I witnessed a scary looking 'domestic' row out in the street as I cycled past. It looked as if it might well come to blows. The woman kept shouting go away leave me alone! whilst what the man shouted was mostly indecipherable, except for the words beginning with 'F' and 'C'. I did what I usually do in such circumstances: cycled on about a hundred yards pretending not to notice, then tucked in behind a parked car, stopped, phone at the ready, just in case a call to the BiB was called for to prevent serious injury. But in the end the man appeared to make off without any blows being landed.

People do 'lose' it in a public place, just like this motorist did. There's no evidence that he caused actual bodily harm, and only minor criminal damage. I don't think there's any chance of the case going further.

[Mark1978]

(Sorry I haven't read all 7 pages)

It seems to be the single most dangerous part of the entire video is the part where the van driver stops and flings his door open, that alone could have caused very serious injury to the cyclist and itself warrants greater sanction that the chasing and shouting.

[kwackers]

Whilst there is certainly a case that such cameras (the newer, better quality ones I mean) could play an invaluable role in identifying and isolating dangers on our roads, they have aroused such hostility and misunderstanding, that I feel 'it ain't worth it'. This is not 1984...

Just to clarify: Taking the OP's case and assuming it was you.
A motorist followed you down a road and after a dodgy overtake then slammed on (with it's associated dangers) in order to jump out and smack you one before sitting on your back wheel and then when you tried to escape manages to grab you, damage your bike and give you a bit of a thumping.
You'd be happy that the police wouldn't do anything since it was just your word against his and he'd claimed you were lying?

There are a couple of important points here.

Firstly the only reason things didn't turn out more seriously was purely down to luck. The rider could have collided with the van instead of being able to swerve around it, the driver could have lost it to the point where he deliberately knocks the rider off, in an attempt to escape the rider could have made a poor judgement with regards other traffic and been involved in a collision. None of it happened of course, but it was just luck that it didn't.

Secondly. The only thing that stops such behaviour is the chance of getting caught. If motorists think that every cyclist is videoing their journey and thus their behaviour could land them in deep poo then they're much more likely to improve it.

Can't say I have any sympathy for the guy, he blew it imo by not admitting the incident when questioned.

[661-Pete]

You'd be happy that the police wouldn't do anything since it was just your word against his and he'd claimed you were lying?

I wouldn't be happy. Resigned, possibly. It does look as if vidcam evidence is being consigned to the DELETE button, and it's "business as usual" ...

[reohn2]

Kwackers

Spot on.
This driver is a menace and should be removed from our roads IMHO.It's that simple.

[kwackers]

I wouldn't be happy. Resigned, possibly. It does look as if vidcam evidence is being consigned to the DELETE button, and it's "business as usual" ...

I'm not so sure. The video camera evidence worked in this case as indeed it has in a number of cases. The fuss made over such cases 'might' make the authorities take more notice.

On the other hand I have seen lots of footage that imo wasn't worth publishing from riders who superficially at least seem oversensitive and who seem semi-hysterical.
In my book, close-ish overtakes equals "meh", but stuff like this I'd like to see the perps brought to justice or failing that; named and shamed.

[Geriatrix]

Whilst there is certainly a case that such cameras (the newer, better quality ones I mean) could play an invaluable role in identifying and isolating dangers on our roads, they have aroused such hostility and misunderstanding, that I feel 'it ain't worth it'. This is not 1984...

That ignores the reason why cyclists feel the need to wear a camera. A quote from the Observer article:

Joe Williams, a spokesman for the cycling lobby group Sustrans, said: "The boom in helmet cams is a real symptom of the safety issues out there that we are hearing about again and again. It says much about the lack of a culture of mutual respect that people feel they have to protect themselves in this way.

Motorists have presumed liability with rear on collisions, cyclists are not accorded the same civil protection. If the cyclist is killed then all that's left is the motorist's testimony. I am still supporting a daughter through Uni and if that happens to me then I at least want the chance of a record of the event.

Not 1984, just the reality of 2013.

[661-Pete]

To be honest, I'd welcome better protection and security before the event. The camera merely gives you the bonus of additional evidence after you've been flattened - and maybe killed.

It is true, I've often, when driving, spotted the camera attached to a cyclist's helmet. But that's because I'm a follower of these forums, so I know all about this stuff. Many motorists, I guess, wouldn't notice, or they'd mistake it for a lamp. Having a camera doesn't make me any better-disposed towards that cyclist in particular, because I should like to hope I treat all cyclists I pass with equal consideration, camera or not. But then: I'm a cyclist.

For protection before the event - well maybe I'd get a better deal if I painted my face and arms all over with red spots, and hung a large card on my back marked MEASLES . Forgive the flippancy, do you see what I mean?

[Mark1978]

Aggression on the roads is the main issue IMO. For some people if they feel that they have been held up, inconvenienced or slighted in any tiny or imaginary way, they cannot cannot contain their anger. You do wonder how such people manage to make it through life tbh.

[[XAP]Bob]

To be honest, I'd welcome better protection and security before the event. The camera merely gives you the bonus of additional evidence after you've been flattened - and maybe killed.

It is true, I've often, when driving, spotted the camera attached to a cyclist's helmet. But that's because I'm a follower of these forums, so I know all about this stuff. Many motorists, I guess, wouldn't notice, or they'd mistake it for a lamp. Having a camera doesn't make me any better-disposed towards that cyclist in particular, because I should like to hope I treat all cyclists I pass with equal consideration, camera or not. But then: I'm a cyclist.

For protection before the event - well maybe I'd get a better deal if I painted my face and arms all over with red spots, and hung a large card on my back marked MEASLES . Forgive the flippancy, do you see what I mean?

Yes - but motorists behave around speed cameras.

They behave around police vehicles

If we can get it out there that the majority of cyclists are recording their behaviour then maybe, just maybe, they'll start behaving around cyclists...

[Vantage]

This driver is a menace and should be removed from our roads IMHO.It's that simple.

Agreed that the driver is a complete loon and should be removed from public roads for the safety of others, but so should the cyclist.
I've watched a few of his other video's and imo, needs to calm down and quit being a drama queen. I've had closer passes than this on many occasions and even filmed one the other day after buying my own camera (as a result of this and other footage), but never once felt the need to chase the driver down and start ranting and raving about it.

[Mark1978]

This driver is a menace and should be removed from our roads IMHO.It's that simple.

Agreed that the driver is a complete loon and should be removed from public roads for the safety of others, but so should the cyclist.
I've watched a few of his other video's and imo, needs to calm down and quit being a drama queen. I've had closer passes than this on many occasions and even filmed one the other day after buying my own camera (as a result of this and other footage), but never once felt the need to chase the driver down and start ranting and raving about it.

I've watched a few of those sorts of videos on youtube, and yes some drivers behaviour is appalling, but equally some cyclists (mentioning no names, person off the tele) seem to freak out over the slightest thing.

[Vorpal]

I've watched a few of those sorts of videos on youtube, and yes some drivers behaviour is appalling, but equally some cyclists (mentioning no names, person off the tele) seem to freak out over the slightest thing.

I fail to see how any cyclist who uses British roads with any regularity could possibly be someone to 'freak out over the slightest thing'. Maybe they are pandering to the drama of youtube video fame.

[661-Pete]

Just found out that the Daily M**l has put up the story too (I'm not posting a link - find it for yourself, sorry).

While the DM coverage seems fair enough, and even the comments are mostly positive, I'm a bit worried that they have published a photo of the cyclist himself. Did they get permission to do so? OK so the motorist's photo has already gone all over the net, that's unavoidable as he clearly shows up in the viral video. But the cyclist? The photo in question doesn't look like one taken by a journo or newspaper photographer.

The driver's personal safety has already been compromised (I'll leave it to others to debate whether he 'deserved it'). The cyclist has posted in another forum (I've been checking them) that he feels frightened and bewildered by the turn things have taken.

Where is this all going to? Times like these are when I feel like screaming DAMN THE INTERNET!!! Even though I use it...

[thirdcrank]

IMO, in suitable circumstances video footage provides powerful corroboration of a witness. Whatever people's opinions on the outcome of this case, it seems to have been made possible by the availability of the vid.

Bearing in mind that the evidence can work both ways, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how it can be seen as a cause of potential aggro from the "cameraman."

I canvassed opinions on here and I have two cameras. One is a Dogcam helmet camera and the other is a Smartwitness journey recorder in my car. I hardly ever bother to review what's been recorded and I've certainly not started reporting things to the police or going public on youtube etc. I'd just like to have some corroboration if anything went wrong. Recording things like this doesn't make me feel aggressive: on the contrary. Particularly while driving, I've found that it highlights my own driving faults. If somebody does something silly, the fact of having it recorded, even though nothing will happen and it will soon be overwritten, makes me feel a whole lot better. Does anybody think that the snake charmer would have believed as he did if he had had his own camera rolling?

My concern is that if we start branding headcam users and the like as aggressive and or looney, we will we undermining one of the few thing going for us.

PS I'm thinking of replacing the Smartwitness with one that also records what's happening behind.