Cars parked in cycle lanes.

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camrob
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Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby camrob » 20 Jun 2013, 5:22pm

I'm interested in how fellow members would interpret rule 240 of the highway code, as I often have this discussion. https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/ ... 239-to-247 I'm not sure here what behaviour this law is demanding of motorists who need to stop and set down/pickup or load/unload on roads where cycle lanes are kerbside of the main carriageway and marked, but not physically separated from it. To put it another way, what can cyclists expect from motorists stopping on such roads and what do they think the highway code allows motorists to do?

thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Jun 2013, 7:01pm

The situation is governed by the law rather than the Highway Code, which in this area is no more than a potted guide.

To try to go straight to the point, drivers can do anything that's not specifically prohibited. Yellow lines don't prohibit either loading or picking up/ setting down passengers. Loading prohibitions are indicated by the yellow lines up the kerb. Picking up / setting down prohibitions need a ban on stopping.

Yellow line parking and mandatory cycle lanes are mandated by their own specific traffic regulation order at each location.

Beyond that there are the various obstruction offences and leaving a vehicle in a dangerous position.

The practical problem is that the enforcement of yellow line parking has now been decriminalised and passed to local authorities, while the police retain the enforcement of obstruction etc. Inevitably, the separate enforcement authorities tend to point to the other when complaints are made that enforcement is neglected.

(This is the situation in the sticks. In London TfL has extra authority on the red routes.)

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gaz
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby gaz » 20 Jun 2013, 7:17pm

Let us not forget The Vilnius Solution :wink: .
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

camrob
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby camrob » 20 Jun 2013, 10:04pm

Thanks for a very considered and helpful response. It's given me something to go on. One thing about the particular prohibition against stopping in "a tram or cycle lane during its period of operation" (rule 240 again) that strikes me is that, by saying that cars can never park in cycle lanes on roads at all, then cars ought to park, stop or unload in the car lane (in line with local parking restrictions) whilst leaving the kerbside cycle lane free? In your opinion, is this what the highway code seems to be requiring?

snibgo
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby snibgo » 20 Jun 2013, 10:21pm

I think that HC rule about cycle lanes refers to mandatory lanes, marked by a solid white line, which prohibits motorists from entering them (except when they think they can get away with it). Some mandatory lanes (eg in London) are only mandatory at certain times of the day.

Advisory cycle lanes, marked by dashed lines, can be used by motorists whenever they want, and don't (I think) automatically change parking privileges.

Mistik-ka
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby Mistik-ka » 21 Jun 2013, 4:21am

You mean it's not British public policy to use a picture of a bicycle to indicate a parking lane! :? (Just when I thought I'd got it sorted out…)

thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2013, 5:28am

camrob wrote:Thanks for a very considered and helpful response. It's given me something to go on. One thing about the particular prohibition against stopping in "a tram or cycle lane during its period of operation" (rule 240 again) that strikes me is that, by saying that cars can never park in cycle lanes on roads at all, then cars ought to park, stop or unload in the car lane (in line with local parking restrictions) whilst leaving the kerbside cycle lane free? In your opinion, is this what the highway code seems to be requiring?


I can only repeat that the HC is only a potted guide and it's a big area of regulations reduced to a few lines. If you look at the foot of rule 240 this is the abbreviated legislation

Laws MT(E&W)R regs 7 & 9, MT(S)R regs 6 & 8, ZPPPCRGD regs 18 & 20, RTRA sects 5, 6 & 8, TSRGD regs 10, 26 & 27, RTA 1988 sects 21(1) & 36


The bit in red is the Road Traffic Regulation Act and the sections listed are merely those empowering the creation of traffic regulation orders (TRO's) While there is some standardisation of their wording, an individual TRO has to be checked to see what it prohibits or directs. (This contrasts with eg infringing the Zig-zags on a pedestrian crossing which is a specific offence under the ZPPPPPPPPP or whatever also listed.)

One practical result is that a mandatory cycle lane will have so many loopholes that unless it is accompanied by a total prohibition of waiting and loading it will be a waste of time. Even then, unless there is a prohibition on stopping, drivers will do so to pick up and set down passengers. At least, most drivers have an idea what double yellow lines mean (as in "No parking, at all, at all") but I suspect that the mandatory cycle lane is probably one of the least understood signs on our roads.

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danfoto
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby danfoto » 21 Jun 2013, 8:06am

thirdcrank wrote: At least, most drivers have an idea what double yellow lines mean (as in "No parking, at all, at all") ...

With the greatest respect, should that not be " ... (as in "Switch on hazard warning indicators when parked here") ?

Or as they are known round here, your "park anywhere" lights :roll:
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

karlt
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby karlt » 21 Jun 2013, 9:09am

I gather they mean "In the newsagents buying 20 fags and a copy of Razzle".

camrob
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby camrob » 21 Jun 2013, 10:48am

Strewth! What a can of worms (and thanks for sharing It with me by the way) given that so many car users seem to believe that "cyclists don't pay road tax" "shouldn't be on the road" or "should be in the cycle lane" I suppose it's expecting a bit much for the law to make sense about the space cars ought to leave to cyclists.

kwackers
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby kwackers » 21 Jun 2013, 10:53am

Bike lanes, pavements, verges - hey one guy even parked his new car on the grass playing area in front of his house so he could admire it from his window!

It's all the same set of double standards for your average motorist.

thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2013, 1:51pm

The underlying legal principle is that highways are there for movement, rather than standing still, so a dim view is (or rather used to be) taken of any obstruction. However, the typical motor vehicle spends a lot of its time unused and then it can be something of a nuisance for the driver to find somewhere to leave it.

Obstruction might be said to be of two types: if it's a real blockage, the authorities will generally act PDQ to move it or to mitigate its effect with detours etc. Beyond that, in legal terms, anything stationary on a highway is obstructing the bit of highways it's standing on, even if traffic can pass it reasonably easily, and the con & use reg of "unnecessary obstruction" was devised to enforce this. Over the years, various decided cases have undermined this principle and now on-road parking is the norm and it has to be pretty bad before much is done to shift it.

camrob
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby camrob » 21 Jun 2013, 4:16pm

Yes, on street parking is the norm. Funny thing is though, motorists who are usually happy to park in the cycle lane seem to get annoyed when cyclists have to move into their ("the cars") lane to go round such obstructions. I've lost count of how many close passes, raging drivers and collisions I've seen on YouTube with precisely this scenario.

sirmy
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby sirmy » 21 Jun 2013, 7:10pm

I've just had a look for the legislation covering cycle lanes and it appears they don't really exist. The 1980 Highways Act has a clause in section 65 which says

"(1)Without prejudice to section 24 above, a highway authority may, in or by the side of a highway maintainable at the public expense by them which consists of or comprises a made-up carriageway, construct a cycle track as part of the highway; and they may light any cycle track constructed by them under this section." Now, "in or by the side of a highway maintainable at the public expense" makes it sound like a "cycle lane", a bit of the carriageway segregated by a white line, is actually a cycle track.

Now section 21 of the 1988 Road traffic Act says that "(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, any person who, without lawful authority, drives or parks a [F1mechanically propelled] vehicle wholly or partly on a cycle track is guilty of an offence."

So it's an offence to park on a cycle track and a "cycle lane" is actually a cycle track, so it's an offence. But then if you look up the parking for yellow lines there is no actual mention of loading and unloading merely no waiting. No doubt parking enforces would give the same period of grace on a cycle lane as they would on a yellow line

snibgo
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Postby snibgo » 21 Jun 2013, 7:29pm

As I understand it, a cycle track is different to a cycle lane. The difference is that a cycle lane is a lane in carriageway, where the carriageway is generally available for all vehicles. The cycle lane may be mandatory or advisory (and this refers to whether motorists are obliged to keep off the cycle lane).

On the other hand, a cycle track is a separate carriageway -- a separate strip of tarmac. Motorists are not allowed on cycle tracks (with the exception of highway vehicles, and probably emergency services, etc).

A "highway" is generally broader than a "carriageway". Think of it at extending from fence to fence, and incorporating pavements, grass verges and carriageways.