Cars parked in cycle lanes.

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thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by thirdcrank »

camrob wrote:Yes, on street parking is the norm. Funny thing is though, motorists who are usually happy to park in the cycle lane seem to get annoyed when cyclists have to move into their ("the cars") lane to go round such obstructions. I've lost count of how many close passes, raging drivers and collisions I've seen on YouTube with precisely this scenario.


I had an example of this attitude some years ago when I represented the cyclist's POV as the studio guest at a local radio phone-in. The other two weren't in the studio at all. just pretending to be there. I'd ridden in at short notice and my Birdy was sitting beside me making a moral point. Anyway, one of the others was a driving instructor who was bitterly complaining that children cycling in the street (outside their own houses) made things very difficult for his pupils when he was holding lessons there (the children were unfortunate enough to live on a test route, of course.) Somehow, the subject of pavement parking in the area (streets of terrace houses fronting straight onto the footway) came up and in response to one angry caller he explained that their owners had nowhere else to park. He was unreceptive to a suggestion by that caller that the children had nowhere else to play.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by Cunobelin »

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A Portsmouth Classic...

Council.... He's parking on a pavement inside the lines for the crossing so it is a POlice matter
Police: He's on a double yellow line - it's a Council Matter
Council - No it isn't it is a clear traffic offence and outside our jurisdiction
Police - They are wrong it's nothing to do with us
Council - Yes we know its a double yellow line, but we can't fine them because they are on the pavement


..and so it went, eventually after nine months of both the Police and Council coming up with lame excuses for these taxis illegally parking, we managed to get fines issued for inappropriate behaviour through the Taxi licensing system!

No-on wants to take responsibility or action
thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by thirdcrank »

My earlier post about mandatory cycle lanes was on an IIRC basis. A good source of guidance - or at least guidance to official thinking is the Traffic Signs Manual, which the the ministry of transport's guide for highwaymen. Chapter 5 covers road markings (which are, of course "traffic signs" for this purpose.)

Here are what I see as the main bits with regard to mandatory cycle lanes:

16.4 Mandatory cycle lanes are parts of the carriageway which other vehicles must not enter except to pick up or set down passengers, or in case of emergency. ...

16.5 With-flow mandatory cycle lanes are bounded by a 150 mm continuous white line to diagram 1049. ....

16.7 A traffic regulation order will be required to prohibit other vehicles from using the lane (except for emergency and statutory purposes). The order should also prohibit waiting and loading during the operational hours of the lane. Yellow “no waiting” lines and kerb “no loading” marks are not necessary, unless it is required to prohibit waiting or loading for some period outside the operational hours of the cycle lane. In practice, many authorities nevertheless provide yellow lines and loading marks, even when the restrictions do not apply outside these hours, to encourage better compliance. Upright signs detailing the times of waiting and loading restrictions must then also be used. ...


In my earlier post I think I mentioned confusion about continuous while lines along the carriageway. Diagram 1012 in its various variants is the patter for continuous white lines marking the edge of the carriageway etc. This is why some drivers (and apparently even some police believe that cyclists are confined by regulations to the left of the "edge of carriageway" marking.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/t ... ter-05.pdf
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danfoto
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by danfoto »

snibgo wrote:A "highway" is generally broader than a "carriageway". Think of it at extending from fence to fence, and incorporating pavements, grass verges and carriageways.


:? Can it really the case that the paved and/or grassed strips alongside the road itself are part of the highway? Surely if the pavement is part of the highway, it should be legal to ride a bike on it?

I always understood the paved strip provided for the use of pedestrians to be the footway, but was never sure what any grassed strips might be, so I'd welcome clarification.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by thirdcrank »

As with so much else, it all depends. A highway is bounded by the "highway fence." That's a technical term, as you might expect, and there may be no fence at all, in the normal meaning of the word. The term "footway" has only been adopted relatively recently; it used to be a footpath alongside a road and as we've discussed on here frequently, so-called pavement cycling is prohibited by the Highways Act 1835.

The law on this subject is a mix of the most ancient common law and modern attempts to clarify it in statutes. Remember there can be a lot at stake, such as the property rights of the landowners whose property is crossed by a highway, and the responsibility for repairs (and from that the liability for compo.)
sirmy
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by sirmy »

Snibgo - the point/question I was making/raising is that what you have identified as a cycle lane fits the definition of a cycle track under the 1980 Highways Act i.e it is "in or by the side of a highway maintainable at the public expense", therefore the distinction made between a cycle lane and a cycle track are meaningless. The restrictions on parking would therefore apply to a mandatory "cycle lane". This would possibly also apply to adopted footpaths, as opposed to footways.

This all would, of course, only apply if the Highways Act was used. If the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 is used, as it was by my local authority to issue an order making a segregated path a mandatory cycle lane (despite one of their own engineers telling them that it was already covered under the Highways Act)! then there would need to be a further provision for yellow lines, although if a section of the highway had a restriction on the use of motorized vehicles surely parking would contravene that?

My head now hurts :?
snibgo
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by snibgo »

I'm no expert at the legal mechanisms for creating rights of way for cylists. However, motorists are clearly (I think) not allowed on cycle tracks created under HA 1980 s65. This is because in that Act:
“cycle track” means a way constituting or comprised in a highway, being a way over which the public have the following, but no other, rights of way, that is to say, a right of way on pedal cycles (other than pedal cycles which are motor vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988 with or without a right of way on foot.

HA 1980 s329

I remember seeing an exception for motor vehicles used by highways authorities and emergency vehicles, but I forget where.
thirdcrank
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by thirdcrank »

Successive governments have shied away from doing anything about pavement parking and somewhere on the forum there's a link from me to a govt publication saying that in general terms there is no legislation banning it. (There are regulations covering HGV's and afaik London Boroughs may adopt powers to prohibit footway parking.)

Anyway, if they converted every pavement to shared use (and Heaven forbid that they should) then footway parking would be illegal.
Mark1978
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by Mark1978 »

danfoto wrote:
snibgo wrote:A "highway" is generally broader than a "carriageway". Think of it at extending from fence to fence, and incorporating pavements, grass verges and carriageways.


:? Can it really the case that the paved and/or grassed strips alongside the road itself are part of the highway? Surely if the pavement is part of the highway, it should be legal to ride a bike on it?

I always understood the paved strip provided for the use of pedestrians to be the footway, but was never sure what any grassed strips might be, so I'd welcome clarification.


Yes everything from fence to fence is the highway. Bicycles are permitted to ride on the carriageway but not the footway.
Mark1978
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by Mark1978 »

IIRC it's illegal to drive on the footway. But that's all. Being parked on the footway does not constitute evidence of driving on it.
snibgo
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by snibgo »

Found what I was looking for: RTA 1988 s21
Subject to the provisions of this section, any person who, without lawful authority, drives or parks a mechanically propelled vehicle wholly or partly on a cycle track is guilty of an offence.

This also provides exceptions for emergencies, highway authorities and statutory undertakers.

"Cycle track" is as defined in HA 1980.
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Andyrew K
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by Andyrew K »

thirdcrank wrote:
In my earlier post I think I mentioned confusion about continuous while lines along the carriageway. Diagram 1012 in its various variants is the patter for continuous white lines marking the edge of the carriageway etc. This is why some drivers (and apparently even some police believe that cyclists are confined by regulations to the left of the "edge of carriageway" marking.


In my experience many drivers think a continuous white line means the other side of it is free parking...
Last edited by Andyrew K on 23 Jun 2013, 8:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gaz
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by gaz »

It's quite simple to make the "no parking" element of a cycle-lane self enforcing.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Mark1978 wrote:IIRC it's illegal to drive on the footway. But that's all. Being parked on the footway does not constitute evidence of driving on it.

And this is the grey area, as how does one get car onto the footway if not by driving :?
Apparently ilegal to block pavement / path, but who really cares, all this spending millions of euro grants on cycleways but no common sense.

I was running the gauntlet as I do along a very busy road with a marked cycle way wathever in the gutter, at one point it is barely 16 " wide :( I kid you not, and very common that I make the three miles quicker than the traffic jam, as I do.
The other day I hit a car on the rear wing several times with my hand to get them out of MY lane so I could proceed, I would like all authorities to cycle this cycle lane once at any time of the day, they would not for sure.

Very soon the house prices will rocket along this road and surrounding area as in 18 months the 3 mile road improvment scheme is due to finish at no less than 110 Million..........Then the road will be my fast cycle track :lol:

My average times will go up as I am always slowing for traffic there :)
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snibgo
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Re: Cars parked in cycle lanes.

Post by snibgo »

Mark1978 wrote:IIRC it's illegal to drive on the footway. But that's all. Being parked on the footway does not constitute evidence of driving on it.

So true. I reckon cars blocking pavements is a far greater crime (morally) than cars blocking cycle lanes.

Cycling around a parked car is easy enough. But wheelchair users have to drop down the kerb, wheel themselves around the parked car, then get back up the kerb again.

When I made this point to a local culprit, who has a double garage with driveway sufficient for perhaps five cars but frequently entirely blocks a pavement, she initially explained that the roads wasn't safe enough to leave her car on. So, I said, was it safe enough for wheelchair users? At this point she told me to f off.
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