Lycra Lout Surprise

[danfoto]

They at least could make an effort to look like our taxes aren't wasted.

Hah! According to today's local rag, that's going to be even less likely to happen in our neck of the woods in future. Apparently they're going to close the few remaining police stations round here in the interest of "efficiency" and what coppers they still have will be based in town halls, council offices and suchlike.

[661-Pete]

Apparently they're going to close the few remaining police stations round here in the interest of "efficiency" and what coppers they still have will be based in town halls, council offices and suchlike.

Here too (well, the same ones, I'm also in Sussex). A little while ago, while cycling, I found a wallet, containing credit cards, lying in the road. I performed my duties as a "good upstanding citizen blah blah..." and duly handed it in over the counter at our local nick. They said thanks very much, they'll try and restore it to its owner. Can't do that any more, would I have to call out a copper to take possession of the lost property?

[Milfred Cubicle]

I have to agree about the (mis)use of the police forces against citizens. The miners strike was an example of the 'bad old days'. More recently though, we've had much the same at the G8 protests, the anti-capitalist protest at St Paul's, the student protest. All resulted in accusations of heavy-handedness by police, and some notable defences of police conduct. It seems like Althusser might have been right. When the ideological dominance of the 'ruling classes' starts to break down, they just send in the heavy mob with batons. However, when an unknown and potentially dangerous threat emerges (the London riots), the police seemed to hide behind the vans. Still, in the early hours of the riots, it was only private property of average people that was attacked...hardly worth protecting it would seem.

[reohn2]

I have to agree about the (mis)use of the police forces against citizens. The miners strike was an example of the 'bad old days'. More recently though, we've had much the same at the G8 protests, the anti-capitalist protest at St Paul's, the student protest. All resulted in accusations of heavy-handedness by police, and some notable defences of police conduct. It seems like Althusser might have been right. When the ideological dominance of the 'ruling classes' starts to break down, they just send in the heavy mob with batons. However, when an unknown and potentially dangerous threat emerges (the London riots), the police seemed to hide behind the vans. Still, in the early hours of the riots, it was only private property of average people that was attacked...hardly worth protecting it would seem.

+1.
Well said.

[wrangler_rover]

The police went in heavy with the miners, students and G8 protesters. What I think was a huge wake up call to the ruling classes was at the pro hunting demo in Westminster when the police went in heavy with the pro hunt demonstrators (ruling classes). They suddenly found themselves being treated the same was as other demonstrators, miners, students etc. and they didn't like that.

[DavidT]

A few observations to contribute to the debate;

They closed our village Police station, but instead opened up a little office adjacent to the school (not because the school has problems necessarily, but because it was convenient). Although being sceptical I have to admit that you do see Police presence around, and contact is possible. They also seem quite well engaged with the Neighbourhood Watch. We all have the 101 number in the country now as well. Our county was one of the trial areas and it seemed reasonably effective.

Two weeks ago I had a Member's assessment with the IAM, part of my self imposed regime of refresher training every few years . You'll be pleased to know that the examiner (recently retired from Police) was keen for me to be doing shoulder checks in traffic to watch out for cyclists and motor cyclists.

On a more serious note, I know someone who had a domestic violence case to deal with recently, and she could not sing the praises of the Police high enough in the way the whole thing was handled (and followed up). And she is someone who has always been very sceptical of the boys in blue and had only involved them initially from a 999 necessity.

Like 661-Pete, my sample of experience is pretty small. No doubt some people have loads of experience.

(Admission of interest; I have had Police within my family. I can tell you the Police are human beings, and not always perfect... )

[Cyril Haearn]

Having lived in America I can confirm through some dealings with the police there what it means to give dangerously stupid people a gun and a badge. I always imagined that the police in the UK were more like reasonable, civilised human beings, but it seems not. Here in Berlin I may be the only person within miles who stops at red lights (cyclists, naturlich), and I was contemplating "going with the flow" when a friend told me he'd just been fined e80 for jumping a red light (on a deserted road at 2am, wizz zee German polizie hiding in zee busches).

A while ago I read that the berliner Polizei had introduced a Fahrradstaffel based at Alexanderplatz (right in the middle of Berlin)
Quite a few cops applied, there was to be a focus on vehicles parked on cycleways, and a cycling cop is often faster than a car because she can shoulder her machine and sprint up stairs like Daryl Brassington in a cyclo-cross race, +1

[[XAP]Bob]

I don't object to the police not being perfect - but the OP incident isn't imperfection, it's either:

- Gross incompetence (by those training the police)
- Wilful disregard of the law *and* lying about such as a 'defence'

[Abu Milhem]

To supply some balance: after I was attacked in the street last year, I was grateful that the police quickly identified the culprits, gathered evidence and took them to court.

Some balance on the topic you raise. I was attacked in the street in central London about 10 years ago and apart from the police officer who accompanied me to hospital where I was patched up the Met investigation was a shambles. CID were a disgrace to any organisation for their sheer lack of competence in arranging simple things and being borderline offensive into the bargain. I gave up and chalked it up to experience. Norfolk police when I had some non-bike related business with them were courteous, helpful and effective (it related to a piano and scenes worthy of a Jacques Tati film but that is a story for another time).

[Richard D]

I know those traffic lights very well, and the sequence (like at several sets in BoT) is inefficient and downright bizarre. If you're coming from over the railway bridge towards the old road bridge (so passing the police station/mags court on your left) you can often be held for some time at red when there is no traffic against you, as the lights are green for traffic coming from the old road bridge towards the railway bridge. There's no rhyme or reason to it - just like there's no risk to going across on red. Not that I'd do it - it's too close to the police station to get away with it if there are eagle-eyed cops about.

Still don't understand the closure of that Magistrates Court. First they built the extension and closed the historic part of the building, then about twenty years later they shut the court entirely. A LOT of money has been wasted building or extending court buildings in the 80s, only to close them 20-25 years later. I've not seen such short-term planning lead to so much waste on any other type of public buildings; schools are normally kept open until they fall down!

[mercalia]

Having lived in America I can confirm through some dealings with the police there what it means to give dangerously stupid people a gun and a badge. I always imagined that the police in the UK were more like reasonable, civilised human beings, but it seems not. Here in Berlin I may be the only person within miles who stops at red lights (cyclists, naturlich), and I was contemplating "going with the flow" when a friend told me he'd just been fined e80 for jumping a red light (on a deserted road at 2am, wizz zee German polizie hiding in zee busches).

A while ago I read that the berliner Polizei had introduced a Fahrradstaffel based at Alexanderplatz (right in the middle of Berlin)
Quite a few cops applied, there was to be a focus on vehicles parked on cycleways, and a cycling cop is often faster than a car because she can shoulder her machine and sprint up stairs like Daryl Brassington in a cyclo-cross race, +1

where do they put their machine guns though?

[Cyril Haearn]

Having lived in America I can confirm through some dealings with the police there what it means to give dangerously stupid people a gun and a badge. I always imagined that the police in the UK were more like reasonable, civilised human beings, but it seems not. Here in Berlin I may be the only person within miles who stops at red lights (cyclists, naturlich), and I was contemplating "going with the flow" when a friend told me he'd just been fined e80 for jumping a red light (on a deserted road at 2am, wizz zee German polizie hiding in zee busches).

A while ago I read that the berliner Polizei had introduced a Fahrradstaffel based at Alexanderplatz (right in the middle of Berlin)
Quite a few cops applied, there was to be a focus on vehicles parked on cycleways, and a cycling cop is often faster than a car because she can shoulder her machine and sprint up stairs like Daryl Brassington in a cyclo-cross race, +1

where do they put their machine guns though?

Only specially-trained cops have machine-guns (several were patrolling the christmas market on foot), all ordinary cops have pistols on their hips

Three Billboards is an interesting new film about cops in trumpland
Just seen Ueberleben in Neukoelln, a film about Berlin, seems the place has changed since I was there

[Flinders]

The police went in heavy with the miners, students and G8 protesters. What I think was a huge wake up call to the ruling classes was at the pro hunting demo in Westminster when the police went in heavy with the pro hunt demonstrators (ruling classes). They suddenly found themselves being treated the same was as other demonstrators, miners, students etc. and they didn't like that.

I have business contacts with the hunting fraternity and you are dead right. A lot of them were very pro-police before that demo, partly because of a genuine though misguided belief that the police could/would do no wrong. They had an eye-opener that day, and I think that is why more people on the right of politics are now actually fairly anti-police. People learned from the evidence of their own eyes that there are elements of the police force who are happy to physically attack innocent civilians doing nothing wrong, something they had never believed before.

My experience of the police directly and via friends and people I know has been both good and bad, which you would expect by the law of averages. But what worried me most was that the bad involved, in one case, the police officer telling an outright lie to my face whilst standing in front of the evidence that proved it was a lie. In my experience, people who lie as automatically as he did do it often. Another case was far worse but I can't comment on it here. A life was nearly lost over it.