The Waitrose Girl

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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hondated
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby hondated » 17 Jul 2013, 5:11pm

Re: Waitrose girl. For me as long as she is cycling responsibly and at a speed that really does not endanger pedestrians then I do not see a problem.
That said yesterday my wife wanted to go for a walk on Eastbourne Pier, I personally wanted to go out on the bike but hey marriage means compromising surely at times doesn't it.
Well we parked our van on the front and began to walk along the promenade to the pier and within minutes two cyclists, young ladies, whizzed past on their bikes nearly knocking us over .
Given that cycling is not allowed on the promenade it annoyed me because they were doing something that they should not have been doing but rather because of cyclists such as them that is probably one of the reasons why us sensible cyclists cannot enjoy the same pleasure they were having.

To open up the thread even more is someone choosing to not use a designated cycle path as bad as Waitrose Girl !.

Fohat
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Fohat » 17 Jul 2013, 5:24pm

Well I for one am shockked.


They have Waitrose in Birmingham these days! Birmingham?

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Mr. Viking
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Mr. Viking » 17 Jul 2013, 5:41pm

I didn't have any footpaths growing up in the country (where I am at the minute actually) so I never rode on footpaths, though I would have loved the chance to avoid 50-80mph traffic up and down some of these roads. However, on moving to glasgow I started to. This was because there was a cycle rout from my halls of residence to my classes which would stop and start erratically, so I would follow the footpath where it left off.

Whenever I went on the road I got a lot of grief from drivers, and I reckoned that as a very slow cyclist I was better off on the footpaths. Confusingly these would often have a sign saying dual use, then no sign at any point to say it wasn't. I'm now a lot more confident (and live in a different area) so I use the road, but I do find it much more relaxing and pleasurable to use separate routes away from motor traffic where possible.

I don't care too much about my right to be on the road, and will happily pull in to the side quite often to let faster traffic through. I care more about avoiding a confrontation with a driver who is under pressure at work and will become aggressive if I get in their way.

Adam S
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Adam S » 17 Jul 2013, 5:48pm

Firstly, I'm not really sure the example was necessary for the question being asked (how do we persuade occasional cyclists to ride on the road instead of the pavement?) and it's probably unwise to provide details of someone who could be readily identified to illustrate a general point. From what I observe the behaviour of the girl in question is typical of many people who use a bike to get around but aren't keen cyclists.
To challenge the conventional wisdom, is cycling on the pavement actually so dangerous (to the cyclist)? I can accept that such cyclists can be a nuisance and that they face far more obstacles and probably have more accidents but are these of the same severity as the collisions on the road? Given the prevalence of pavement cycling we all observe, do they constitute a large proportion of cyclists killed?
I can't criticise all acts of pavement cycling. In too many cases, the difference between illegal pavement cycling and encouraged shared-use isn't an assessment of suitability for cycling but the presence of some white paint, blue signs, larger volume of traffic and a desire aid traffic flow by removing cyclists

snibgo
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby snibgo » 17 Jul 2013, 5:53pm

hondated wrote:Re: Waitrose girl. For me as long as she is cycling responsibly and at a speed that really does not endanger pedestrians then I do not see a problem.

I see it as a symptom of a problem: that motorists scare other users off the roads. The more this happens, the more motorists believe the roads are for their exclusive use, and the more highwaymen design roads for their exclusive use, and the more we are scared off.

Like others, I'd rather Waitrose girl cycled on the pavement (responsibly) than not at all. But it would be better if she cycled on the road. How can she be persuaded? Training, as Si says. And all the other usual measures: seeing other cyclists on the road, having roads designed for cyclists rather than exclusively for motorists, and so on.

How about painting a bike symbol on the centre of the lane?

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danfoto
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby danfoto » 17 Jul 2013, 6:27pm

My main problem with people like Waitrose Girl cycling on the pavement is that when they are as inoffensive as she was this morning, others may be encouraged to ride on the pavement too. Then before you know it, we have A Problem due to the number of people riding on the pavement and/or the manner in which some of them do so.

BTW, at the risk of stating the obvious here, I'm on about otherwise sensible people riding on the pavement in a small town, which in my book is a different kettle of fish to muppets terrorising pedestrians in many parts of our cities.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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Audax67
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Audax67 » 17 Jul 2013, 9:32pm

kwackers wrote:
Audax67 wrote:The cyclist who does get my goat, though, is the one who cycles across a road via the pedestrian crossing and expects to be treated as a pedestrian. I have a specially roughened edge on my tongue for them. :twisted:

Why?

I've seen toucans join up bits of pavement that as far as I can tell weren't cycle paths, I also know of pedestrian crossings that do join cycle paths (as well as both that work correctly).
Then of course there are zebra crossings - although they seem roundly ignored by everyone so people may as well just walk out into the road.

Personally apart from letting out brief sigh when I see an adult male on a pavement I can't say I have any issue with anyone using pavements / crossings with the proviso they're well behaved (and in my experience they're generally a lot better behaved than shared path cyclists - probably due to the usual 'entitlement' nonsense)

If I was on a cycle path and needed to cross the road to the other side I must admit I wouldn't bother getting off my bike regardless of the crossing type.


Dunno what toucans are, apart from comical birds that used to advertise Guinness. I was referring to uncontrolled zebra crossings.

Why do abusers annoy me? It's hard to formulate. There are two reasons. One is that crossings confer priority on their users, and if a cyclist uses that to make me stop he's taking an unfair advantage. The other is that using a zebra crossing requires that you assert your priority by stepping onto it. Staying on a bike when doing so means that you can't stop as readily if the traffic refuses your right of way. It also means that anyone crossing on foot with, or worse against, you has to concentrate on what you're doing (you're already exhibiting a diminished sense of responsibility and might conceivably be mad) as well as the cars. And if they have been concentrating on the cars and only see you at the last moment instead of a slow-moving pedestrian nasty things can happen.

I think that covers it.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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7_lives_left
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby 7_lives_left » 18 Jul 2013, 12:36am

I remember a few months back a rider who was using the pavement when it was full of sheet ice. He was riding a folder. The road clear of course because it had been salted. I felt like telling him that he would find it easier and safer on the road but I feared that if I distracted him he would be off in a flash. I am suprised that he managed to stay upright. You have to be pretty powerfully motivated to use the pavement instead of the road in those conditions.

reohn2
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2013, 7:54am

snibgo wrote:.............I see it as a symptom of a problem: that motorists scare other users off the roads. The more this happens, the more motorists believe the roads are for their exclusive use, and the more highwaymen design roads for their exclusive use, and the more we are scared off............


Spot on!
The problem is that in the UK cyclists are treated as some kind of leach or pariah on society without any validity or rights.
Go to other European countries and it isn't so.
Last edited by reohn2 on 21 Jul 2013, 6:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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karlt
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby karlt » 18 Jul 2013, 10:55am

I have done some counting recently to avoid observational bias. I find it's about 50:50 road/pavement. The ones on the road are nearly always on road bikes or road-oriented hybrids/MTBs; the ones on the pavement virtually always knobbly tyred MTBs (generally fairly cheap) or BMX. Make of that what you will.

Mike Sales
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Mike Sales » 18 Jul 2013, 11:22am

Perhaps the strangest cycling manoeuvre I have seen.
A young woman was ahead of me, approaching a roundabout. There are no pavements here and she was on the road, going rather more slowly than me. As I moved out to overtake, giving her plenty of room since she seemed a bit erratic, she suddenly veered across to the opposite gutter just before the roundabout. She took this widdershins, against the usual direction of traffic and in the outside gutter. She then took the first (to her) exit, continuing on the wrong side of the road.

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Mr. Viking
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Mr. Viking » 18 Jul 2013, 1:16pm

Mike Sales wrote:Perhaps the strangest cycling manoeuvre I have seen.
A young woman was ahead of me, approaching a roundabout. There are no pavements here and she was on the road, going rather more slowly than me. As I moved out to overtake, giving her plenty of room since she seemed a bit erratic, she suddenly veered across to the opposite gutter just before the roundabout. She took this widdershins, against the usual direction of traffic and in the outside gutter. She then took the first (to her) exit, continuing on the wrong side of the road.

I was on a coach from dundee to glasgow when the driver did that. It was in a blizzard and our side of the road was blocked, but the laughing from the cab was a bit perturbing...

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tank
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby tank » 19 Jul 2013, 1:00pm

Having had two accidents :cry: one with a car and one with a person, I have stopped riding on the path.

I and my bike came off much worse after hitting the person :evil: than hitting the car.

When I am on the road drivers, in general, are looking all around them it can be predicted when a lot of them are likely to change direction (even without signalling) as it is mainly done at juctions. When people (me included) walk along all they are worried about is what is in front of them and where they are going next, they also change tact without any warning and without signally at random times.

I cycle on the road as I believe it is safer.

The highway code states -

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129
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ferrit worrier
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby ferrit worrier » 19 Jul 2013, 7:02pm

I don't think you will persuade her to ride on the road. It's my guess it's fear that puts her there. I'm well known at work for riding to and from work and quite a number of people say to me "I don't know how you ride on the roads, it's too dangerous" one or two have tried riding to work only to be put off be a close encounter with a vehicle. I'm an oldie and I've grown up with traffic the youngsters of today are having to meet it head on ( well not literally I hope) Our eldest tried cycling and gave up despite offers to go out with her to give her confidence. Our youngest bikes around Oxford quite happily, and is quite adept at putting drivers in there place if needs be. Her favourite line if she can deliver it, "That was very naughty" which throws the driver into apologising.
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Mark1978
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Re: The Waitrose Girl

Postby Mark1978 » 19 Jul 2013, 7:47pm

Quite. Motor traffic is the massive problem which stops the majority of people from cycling. Saying it isn't is sticking your head in the sand.