The Great British Motorist

[reohn2]

Take a read of this blog that I've been following,written by an American couple cycling from Japan to the UK:-
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page ... 36032&v=18

It's not just the driving either If you follow it through from them getting off the ferry at Dover there's a couple of eye openers from the perspective of overseas visitors to the the green and not so pleasant(at times) land

[mcslaski]

Had a brief look; will be reading closely later. Lovely photography, but sadly the experiences described about our roads and our drivers are all too familiar

[hondated]

reohn2 just added to my favourites and I look forward to reading the thread. If I am not on here I am on CGOAB most evenings brilliant site.

[al_yrpal]

Those are particularly horrid roads, I have ridden them quite a few times. The worst things are British motorhomes and sometimes caravans. The drivers don't know their width, they try to dash past but they haven't got the oomph so they tend to cut in too soon and close pass. I have noticed this in France too, its always the British.

We desperately need a stricter well defined cyclist passing law, speed sensitive like the French one. But no-one seems to pick up on this? If there is one thing that would make cycling safer it would be that.

Al

[Mr. Viking]

I have never cycled in England or Wales, but I find that in Scotland, drivers are more considerate than at home in Northern Ireland. It could be that I've become more experienced since I've been cycling here, but I think it's wrapped up in the car culture in NI, which is I think stronger than the rest of the UK. A lot of people believe that it is their god-given right to drive however they want. That coupled with the profusion of aging, mostly minor roads adds up to a bad mix. I suppose I should try cycling in England before passing judgement though

[reohn2]

...................We desperately need a stricter well defined cyclist passing law, speed sensitive like the French one. But no-one seems to pick up on this? If there is one thing that would make cycling safer it would be that.

Al

I think all cyclists are well aware of the problem,whether there is a cycling organisation with any clout or incentive to lobby the sickly government of this sad country is another matter The CTC certainly hasn't!

I've said on here many times IMHO there is social problem regarding cycling in the UK,the motor car (for a few reasons)has become the tail that's firmly wagging the dog,motorists can do no wrong and providing your vehicle is in order and paper work upto date,you need to commit murder with it to attract anything like a serious penalty.
The cyclist is looked upon as a parasite by a significant element of motorists and authorities alike,with the chances of fairness in any court being slim.And with excuses being put forward such as "the sun was in my eyes"or"I had a momentary lack of concentration"being accepted as mitigation in those courts as reason to kill or seriously injure vulnerable road users to be laughable if it weren't so tragic.
Ther's an old saying "money talks" it most certainly does in the UK,where,to quote Mr Dylan (again) "..to live in a land where justice is a game........".

The worst things are British motorhomes and sometimes caravans

It isn't just Campervans and cars towing caravans that I get the most hassle from but cars driven by madmen and women.

[Mark1978]

I'd also like to take this time point out that out of the developed countries in Europe we passed through, drivers in Britain seem the most oblivious as to how to treat a bicycle on the road

As above the attitude of 'you don't pay road tax' is pretty pervasive in the UK.

[Vorpal]

I agree with their assessments of NCN1, road/cycling signs in the UK and sharing the road space.

I will, however, say that I think much of the difference in experience on the road is due to traffic density. Traffic density in the UK is very high; higher than any other place I've ever cycled. This leads to
-a higher frustration level on the part of all road users
-a higher per journey likelihood of encountering idiots

I think that one becomes sort of hardened to it after a while. It's probably a little easier for people who grow up with it, but it certainly contributes to the low modal share for cycling in the UK.

[reohn2]

I agree with their assessments of NCN1, road/cycling signs in the UK and sharing the road space.

I will, however, say that I think much of the difference in experience on the road is due to traffic density. Traffic density in the UK is very high; higher than any other place I've ever cycled. This leads to
-a higher frustration level on the part of all road users
-a higher per journey likelihood of encountering idiots

I think that one becomes sort of hardened to it after a while. It's probably a little easier for people who grow up with it, but it certainly contributes to the low modal share for cycling in the UK.

I think you're right,but the lack of response by the police and ridiculously low penalties for offenders goes a long way to making loonies and idiots(there is a subtle difference)feel that there isn't anything wrong with the way they treat other human beings especially vulnerable human beings on the roads.
And let's not forget the national press's general attitude to cycling,on the whole disgusting,inflammatory,and if believed cyclists are a subculture needing to be removed from the roads for fear overthrowing the very fabric of society according to some "respected" journalists(if that isn't an oxymoron )

To be frank the driving standards on UK roads is appalling,thats not to say cycling standards are much better either,both make life unpleasant,but only the former is a danger to life generally.

[Vorpal]

To be frank the driving standards on UK roads is appalling, thats not to say cycling standards are much better either,both make life unpleasant,but only the former is a danger to life generally.

Well, like in the blog linked above, British motorists cover a wider spectrum of idiocy & poor driving. I think that in most other European countries, the worst idiocy is somewhat mitigated by enforcement, penalties, and civil compensation for vulnerable users.

As an example, in Norway, while habitual-a-little-over-the-limit speeding is the norm, excessive speeding is uncommon. I witnessed someone speeding excessively quite recently for the first time since I've been here. Three motorcyclists were going up the motorway at (by my estimate) something like 150 km/hr in a 90 km/hr speed limit. they split up at a junction, just after they passed me. One carried on up the motorway. Two went off at the junction, going different ways. A few seconds later, I realised why. A police car followed them, lights & sirens going, and went after one that went off at the junction. Norway penalises excessive speed with a mandatory 18 days in jail. Norwegians are actually afraid of going to jail for road traffic violations

[squeaker]

From day2 in England "Yes, we still plan on heading up to Scotland, but I don't think we'll be doing much more of it on the marked cycle routes. Why? It's because it's just a step up above a bunch of rubbish." Oh, that good?
Nice photos, though

[Ron]

I'm convinced conditions could improve for cyclists in this country if we fell into line with (almost all of) the rest of Europe and introduced presumed/strict/stricter liability.

http://www.cycling-accident-compensatio ... ility.aspx

[reohn2]

I'm convinced conditions could improve for cyclists in this country if we fell into line with (almost all of) the rest of Europe and introduced presumed/strict/stricter liability.

http://www.cycling-accident-compensatio ... ility.aspx

+1
But the reason we never will is because the tail firmly wags the dog.

[Mistik-ka]

During a three-and-a-bit week tour in April/May this year our experience of the Great British Motorist was on the whole a relatively positive one. We live in a small Canadian prairie city (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan) and it is rare to make my seven-mile daily commute to work without at least one attempt on my life by some dimwit in a car. On our tandem in England we averaged about 50 miles a day, and never had more than one close call in a day. (Indeed, it appeared to be our allotted ration, and we were relieved to get it over with as early as possible, because it seemed as if the rest of the day would be uneventful. (If we hadn't been cut off or close-passed by 5:00 in the afternoon I started to get nervous, thinking that we were destined to encounter our Daily Fool within the next couple of miles.

Apropos discussions of Audi, BMW, and Mercedes drivers elsewhere in this forum, all the heart-stopping threats we encountered were BMWs (the drivers apparently convinced that they would be wasting the money they spent on their car unless they drove it as fast as possible and to hell with any cyclist who might deprive them of the potential speed they had paid for), Mercedes (invariably pulling out from a side-road without looking in either direction, convinced that a Benz will survive any collision and it would be a waste of their expensive insurance if they didn't have the chance to collect on it now and then), and delivery vans (either desperately trying to get through their route on time, or resentful of anyone who might be out on a bicycle enjoying themselves instead of being trapped in an unpleasant and underpaid job they hated). Not one Audi driver drew our attention by bad behaviour.

If there's an economist out there who wants to build a theory around these observations, feel free. (But don't forget to cite the source.)

With those exceptions — and never more than one a day — we found British drivers to be reasonable, and often remarkably careful and considerate of a couple of grey-haired geezers on a tandem. Oxford was a revelation — never before have we encountered a city in which it is invariably a pleasure to ride a bicycle! Traffic planners and automobile drivers alike seemed to be aware that bicycles exist and have the right to be on the roads. Indeed, the only bad behaviour we saw on the roads of that lovely old city was that of young male cyclists — many of whose riding was appallingly inconsiderate and downright dangerous to themselves and everyone near them.

Granted, we had a couple of things in our favour. Most of the time we were able to avoid busy roads on our route: Oxford—North Piddle (how could we resist?)—Worcester—Chester—Cumbria—York—Derby—Oxford. And most of the time we were able to avoid commuter (or holiday) traffic. I am tempted to suggest old geezers on tandems get special consideration, but that assumes that car drivers actually notice us — a bit of a leap of faith, that.

Or maybe we were just damned lucky?

[james01]

Thanks Mistik-ka, it's a relief to hear some positive comments for a change! And I agree with your comments about Oxford and BMW drivers.