Speechless

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Speechless

Postby thirdcrank » 10 Aug 2013, 12:56pm

I was thinking more on the lines of getting a discreet rear view mirror and just as somebody was about to overtake with a dismissive grunt or even no greeting at all, zoom off efortlessly into the distance. 8)

Michael R
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Joined: 9 Jul 2008, 10:40pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Michael R » 10 Aug 2013, 1:25pm

BeeKeeper wrote:It really needs to be called a Q Bike after the disguised ships used in WW II. I can just see an old wrinkly like me shooting past a young whipper snapper on a hill. 'Cept the price of the bike is even steeper than the hills around here.


It might tale away my enjoyment of overtaking three cyclists on a hill whose combined age is less than mine :o

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Speechless

Postby reohn2 » 10 Aug 2013, 4:25pm

Michael R wrote: ..........she had had a stroke and he had a leg missing,and was very impressed.........


Please!the coffee,the keyboard........... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though,whilst the E-racebike is a bit soft,the concept is great and I see it as all part of the development of that concept.
If the weight of an E kit can be brought down low enough,say sub 3kgs, and barely recognisable on the bike,it can be a boon for disabled people of all ages.
I know a chap in his 80's who lives alone,he's still cycling and his cycling is his social life,but it's getting harder for him,by his own admission.
He does car assist rides,should he be able to retro fit something light and powerful enough to help with gradients he could go a lot further than his present 15 to 20mile rides.
Myself and Mrs R2 can,due to Mrs R2's illness(which is hopefully temporary), only at present manage 30miles maximum on the tandem and we suffer as a tandem team on steeper gradients because of her illness,so again a light and powerful enough E kit could help a lot.
Just two examples of how this fantastic bicycle add on can help,but the key is lightweight and powerful,development will continue I'm sure,if it's slapped on something silly initially it does worry me,it's a good testing ground :D .
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I cycle therefore I am.

Geriatrix
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Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Speechless

Postby Geriatrix » 10 Aug 2013, 5:42pm

661-Pete wrote:Being wholly unfamiliar with this sort of transport - explain please: because the electric assist goes straight to the BB, does that mean you have to keep pedalling whilst the motor is running?

Not really an electric bike as I understood it, then.

Yes you have to keep pedalling. As I understand it the power is simply controlled by an on/off button on the handlebar. To get the weight down you compromise on control.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

Michael R
Posts: 768
Joined: 9 Jul 2008, 10:40pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Michael R » 10 Aug 2013, 6:13pm

reohn2 wrote:
Michael R wrote: ..........she had had a stroke and he had a leg missing,and was very impressed.........


Please!the coffee,the keyboard........... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though,whilst the E-racebike is a bit soft,the concept is great and I see it as all part of the development of that concept.
If the weight of an E kit can be brought down low enough,say sub 3kgs, and barely recognisable on the bike,it can be a boon for disabled people of all ages.
I know a chap in his 80's who lives alone,he's still cycling and his cycling is his social life,but it's getting harder for him,by his own admission.
He does car assist rides,should he be able to retro fit something light and powerful enough to help with gradients he could go a lot further than his present 15 to 20mile rides.
Myself and Mrs R2 can,due to Mrs R2's illness(which is hopefully temporary), only at present manage 30miles maximum on the tandem and we suffer as a tandem team on steeper gradients because of her illness,so again a light and powerful enough E kit could help a lot.
Just two examples of how this fantastic bicycle add on can help,but the key is lightweight and powerful,development will continue I'm sure,if it's slapped on something silly initially it does worry me,it's a good testing ground :D .


This is where e-bikes come in

snibgo
Posts: 4604
Joined: 29 Jun 2010, 4:45am

Re: Speechless

Postby snibgo » 10 Aug 2013, 7:07pm

I cringe at the price (5,499 euros) and the concept of an E-racebike but love the general idea of electric bikes. Not a substitute for real bikes, but better for the individual and society than cars.

Postboxer
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Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Postboxer » 10 Aug 2013, 8:39pm

So that's how Chris Froome did it!

Adam S
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Joined: 15 Nov 2012, 8:53pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Adam S » 10 Aug 2013, 11:55pm

Maybe E-bikes might actually have more widespread appeal than 'real' bikes when the price comes down. Ok, an assisted race bike is a novelty, but for utility cycling or towns with big hills...

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Speechless

Postby reohn2 » 11 Aug 2013, 9:01am

Adam S wrote:Maybe E-bikes might actually have more widespread appeal than 'real' bikes when the price comes down.

Or when UK residents see the true value of the bicycle as a means of traansport and the authorities spend some money on decent cycling facilities, E-bike sales in NL and Germany are zooming.
But then in these more enlightened countries,people know the true value of the bicycle and not just the cost in euros,which IMHO seems to be a UK problem where cheap=good and paradoxically bicycle=poor rather than value=value and bicycle=good sense for shorter journeys with all the associated health benefits.
The more enlightened UK resident knows that and suffers the consequences of that poor infrastructure not to mention his/her poor treatment by the judicial system should s/he be unfortunate enough to be knocked off his/her bicycle by bad driving standards or worse,drivers who don't think cyclists should even be on their roads.
At a slight but relevant tangent,interconnectedness is a long and probably made up word that sums up what is lacking in UK society,the E-bike can be part of it's reparation IMHO.
Not that I'm a fan of spending £5,000 on a bike but a top quality E-bike for general utility duties or a touring equivalent shouldn't cost more than half that or less,the bike costing £1300,with the E-kit gubbins costing the remainder.
But mention spending £2,500 on an E-bike to 99% of UK residents and they'd tell you they could buy a car for that,not even thinking of it's running costs............

Ok, an assisted race bike is a novelty,

And a sorry one at that :wink: ,but they'll sell,in the same way huge 4x4's sell to preening self indulgent,i'mbetterthanyou,rich thirty somethings with more money than sense.
but for utility cycling or towns with big hills...

And tourists whose knees are past their best,that needn't stop cycling because of it when such a kit is fitted :wink:
Last edited by reohn2 on 11 Aug 2013, 9:35am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Speechless

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Aug 2013, 9:16am

Sorry guys, but the 200watts is the limit for the power that cn be applied to an electric bike (250w for a tricycle)

It will also be limited to 15 mph when assisted

The regs..

The bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
The electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15mph
The bike (including its battery but not the rider) must not be heavier than 40 kilograms (kg) if it’s a bicycle, or 60kg if it’s a tandem or tricycle
The motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 200 watts if it’s a bicycle and 250 watts if it’s a tandem or tricycle
The bike must have a plate showing the manufacturer, the nominal voltage of the battery, and the motor’s power output


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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Speechless

Postby [XAP]Bob » 12 Aug 2013, 9:17am

The problem is "maximum power output" is a bad definition:

Maximum under what conditions?
- Peak power (for how long? .1 seconds?)
- Cooling

Electric motors are funny things - they give maximum torque at low speed, but they can be run at way above their rated power for quite some time.

Better would have been to legislate the controllers to deliver max acceleration/top speed figures.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Mr. Viking
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Location: Liverpool

Re: Speechless

Postby Mr. Viking » 12 Aug 2013, 12:07pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:The problem is "maximum power output" is a bad definition:

Maximum under what conditions?
- Peak power (for how long? .1 seconds?)
- Cooling

Electric motors are funny things - they give maximum torque at low speed, but they can be run at way above their rated power for quite some time.

Better would have been to legislate the controllers to deliver max acceleration/top speed figures.

I would imagine that they use acceleration figures to measure mechanical power using a dynamometer rather than calculating the electrical power for the motor.

Chris the Sheep
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Joined: 13 May 2009, 1:20pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Chris the Sheep » 12 Aug 2013, 12:13pm

I take umbrage at the inferences that electric bikes are for 'disabled' people!

The one in the OP is a bit mad, but as reohn2 has pointed out, electrically-assisted bikes are booming in countries where utility cycling is the norm and far from being the preserve of the elderly and the disabled.

I bit the bullet about three months ago, spent £1100 (ex-display, RRP was £1600) on a Dutch-style Giant pedelec, and I don't regret it for one minute. I think one or two colleagues look down their nose at it, but most are impressed. For those two-car families where one of the cars is only needed for getting to work these bikes make a lot of sense, but then for most people even an unpowered bike should make more sense than running a second car..... :?

Electric bikes make huge sense if they mean you can get rid of a car; the only thing that comes close financially is a 125 motorbike.

The time will come when this forum has an 'electric bike' section. :shock:

Adam S
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Re: Speechless

Postby Adam S » 12 Aug 2013, 12:32pm

Chris the Sheep wrote:Electric bikes make huge sense if they mean you can get rid of a car; the only thing that comes close financially is a 125 motorbike.

What's happened to the humble moped? Are they now solely the preserve of teen tearaways?

Chris the Sheep
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Joined: 13 May 2009, 1:20pm

Re: Speechless

Postby Chris the Sheep » 12 Aug 2013, 6:52pm

Adam S wrote:
Chris the Sheep wrote:Electric bikes make huge sense if they mean you can get rid of a car; the only thing that comes close financially is a 125 motorbike.

What's happened to the humble moped? Are they now solely the preserve of teen tearaways?


Sorry, forgot the 50cc - though most are scooters these days and don't have pedals.

The thing about mopeds is that they're only attractive to 16-year-olds, and to adult car licence holders who passed their test before February 2001 - other than that, there's no advantage to them as the rules are the same as for a 125. They're a dying breed, but there are lots of illegal electric bikes that don't have the 15mph cut-out or are way above the 200W limit. German rules effectively class them as mopeds, but in this country there's no provision for them and riders rely on police not being able to tell the difference.