Avon & Somerset Police

[Tonyf33]

I had no independant witness but, the newly laid road and my extremely detailed version of what actually happened meant I got a reasonable payout for a fractured elbow through a No win no fee out of court settlement.

The worst bit of it was that Bedfordshire police were useless throughout (told me to leave my bike by the side of the road whilst I went to hospital (so I ended up refusing to go) and didn't even file a report despite interviewing/taking statements from the driver who caused the accident & myself at the scene..disgusting
Luckily I had kept my documentation received from the attending officers but no-one had any great details regarding the event even many months afterwards, there were some details on file but no actual report at all, even the incident number was not recognised at first until the date/time of the incident was specified..go figure!

I was hit and run about 2 years ago and though wasn't injured despite being thrown to the ground in the middle of the carriageway, luckily just a small graze, hole in top and broken glasses that they ran over when escaping., they (Hertfordshire Constabulary) couldn't even get my address details correct (because the officer's handwriting was so poor they couldn't tell a 5 from a 3) so I received nothing regarding the incident. This despite offering information of potential CCTV from places of work in the area and a council run camera along the likely escape route. None which were investigated or lapsed after which tapes/discs would have been re-recorded over. The investigating officer never phoned me back depsite me ringing him and giving him this info and his promise to return the call after his holiday.

My most recent dealings with the police is when again I was hit by a car from behind (albeit lightly), when I had the temerity to let a car out of a junction, the vehicle behind then deliberately drove into me when I blocked it from trying to drive away. This time the officer said I was the agitator (As I was waving my hands about when he arrived) and he wouldn't do anything about the fact the driver had deliberately driven into me..
The police are merchant bankers with knobs on and not fit for purpose

[thirdcrank]

One of the things about shoddy or non-existent paperwork, is that it's one of the easiest things to complain about successfully, in that it forms its own evidence and it's inexcusable. It also calls into question any account given by the writer, since if they couldn't get it right at the time, how can they be credible later? (As an aside, I've had involvement with any number of complaints and the like, where there was an apparently reasonable explanation for what happened, but inadequate paperwork of some sort or another has been indefensible.)

I'm not talking about poor handwriting or childish spelling mistakes - deplorable as they may be - but inadequate official records are IMO unacceptable, especially when they compromise the ability of others to take action eg to get compo in a civil action.

[rand]

I had no independant witness but, the newly laid road and my extremely detailed version of what actually happened meant I got a reasonable payout for a fractured elbow through a No win no fee out of court settlement.

The worst bit of it was that Bedfordshire police were useless throughout (told me to leave my bike by the side of the road whilst I went to hospital (so I ended up refusing to go) and didn't even file a report despite interviewing/taking statements from the driver who caused the accident & myself at the scene..disgusting
Luckily I had kept my documentation received from the attending officers but no-one had any great details regarding the event even many months afterwards, there were some details on file but no actual report at all, even the incident number was not recognised at first until the date/time of the incident was specified..go figure!

I was hit and run about 2 years ago and though wasn't injured despite being thrown to the ground in the middle of the carriageway, luckily just a small graze, hole in top and broken glasses that they ran over when escaping., they (Hertfordshire Constabulary) couldn't even get my address details correct (because the officer's handwriting was so poor they couldn't tell a 5 from a 3) so I received nothing regarding the incident. This despite offering information of potential CCTV from places of work in the area and a council run camera along the likely escape route. None which were investigated or lapsed after which tapes/discs would have been re-recorded over. The investigating officer never phoned me back depsite me ringing him and giving him this info and his promise to return the call after his holiday.

My most recent dealings with the police is when again I was hit by a car from behind (albeit lightly), when I had the temerity to let a car out of a junction, the vehicle behind then deliberately drove into me when I blocked it from trying to drive away. This time the officer said I was the agitator (As I was waving my hands about when he arrived) and he wouldn't do anything about the fact the driver had deliberately driven into me..
The police are merchant bankers with knobs on and not fit for purpose

The post of Police Commissioner was created to improve incompetent and not-fit-for- purpose police forces.
I would suggest you (and others like you) might well recieve the attention your complaints warrant, by writing direct to the relevant Police Commissioner.

Rand.

[Tonyf33]

The post of Police Commissioner was created to improve incompetent and not-fit-for- purpose police forces.
I would suggest you (and others like you) might well recieve the attention your complaints warrant, by writing direct to the relevant Police Commissioner.

Rand.

To waste more of my time...date wise only the most recent event would have come under the PC remit, however as in many cases without an independant witness nobody is interested, certainly getting any sort of result out of it isn't guarante'd by any stretch. That is the reason folk don't follow up and complain, they see it as futile and time wasting..

[jezer]

The post of Police Commissioner was created to improve incompetent and not-fit-for- purpose police forces.
I would suggest you (and others like you) might well recieve the attention your complaints warrant, by writing direct to the relevant Police Commissioner.

Rand.

To waste more of my time...date wise only the most recent event would have come under the PC remit, however as in many cases without an independant witness nobody is interested, certainly getting any sort of result out of it isn't guarante'd by any stretch. That is the reason folk don't follow up and complain, they see it as futile and time wasting..

So, if people don't complain there is evidently no problem. The police get off the hook again, simple

[rand]

The post of Police Commissioner was created to improve incompetent and not-fit-for- purpose police forces.
I would suggest you (and others like you) might well recieve the attention your complaints warrant, by writing direct to the relevant Police Commissioner.

Rand.

To waste more of my time...date wise only the most recent event would have come under the PC remit, however as in many cases without an independant witness nobody is interested, certainly getting any sort of result out of it isn't guarante'd by any stretch. That is the reason folk don't follow up and complain, they see it as futile and time wasting..

So, if people don't complain there is evidently no problem. The police get off the hook again, simple

You've hit the nail on the head, jezer!
The police are more than happy to cover their own incompetence and one way of overcoming this problem is to take your (we assume justifiable) complaint is to inform the appropriate Police Commissioner and his remit is not restricted to events after his/her installation.

Rand.

[thirdcrank]

Rand

Your faith in the PCC's is touching. We are obviously going to see all sorts of well-publicised goings on at chief officer level, but apart from anything else, the PCC's simply don't have the resources available to conduct any sort of investigation into the type of thing being discussed here. Nobody has yet come up with a way of handling things which shouldn't happen but don't amount to serious misconduct. For years before the creation of the IPCC, there was a lot of pressure from the Home Office to increase the use of "informal resolution" of public complaints to get things to a position where an independent body wouldn't be swamped. Part of the trouble is that the broad idea is OK, but in specific cases, both the complainant and the complained about tend to feel that the case isn't minor at all. Beyond that, there are quite a few people who shout and bawl about these things but tend to quieten down when it looks as though they are being taken seriously. The real pity is that a lot of people who may have been badly treated are never heard.

IMO if complaining to the PCC is going to have any effect, which I doubt, it's going to be over policy matters eg insufficient priority given what's now called "road policing."

PCC = Police and Crime Commissioner
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Commission.

[rand]

Thirdcrank,

Surely what we are complaining about is policy. We are seeking to change the police policy of seeemingly, wanting to ignore accidents involving cyclists and motorists. If Chief Constables are unwilling to address the problem, then bring it to the attention of the Police Commissioner.

Rand.

[thirdcrank]

Thirdcrank,

Surely what we are complaining about is policy. We are seeking to change the police policy of seeemingly, wanting to ignore accidents involving cyclists and motorists. If Chief Constables are unwilling to address the problem, then bring it to the attention of the Police Commissioner.

As I repeatedly post, I think it's important to be clear what result is wanted. It's certainly the case that PCC's now have a big say in policy, within the financial and policy constraints set by central govt. At a time of shrinking resources, any increases in priority are actually likely to be mitigations of a reduction. The PCC role is probably too new to be able to see much in the way of results and it would be unrealistic to expect otherwise. In the last couple of decades there's been big changes made in the priority given to domestic violence and hate crime. That only came about through sustained campaigning. Through that priority change and other reasons more to do with the creation of the CPS, traffic enforcement has been reduced to a shadow of what it used to be.

FWIW, I fancy that the need to be re-elected will lead to a lot of spin without much substance: statistical evidence that everything is hunkydory when everyday experience says something different. More well-publicised crackdowns for which things like pavment cycling, riding without lights and RLJing would be top favourites.

My earlier post to which you replied was mainly about complaining over individual cases of bad service. I'm not sure if it makes that much difference to the bigger picture if the officer who takes no action is impeccably behaved or rude. That's not to defend rudeness.

[rand]

Thirdcrank,

Surely what we are complaining about is policy. We are seeking to change the police policy of seeemingly, wanting to ignore accidents involving cyclists and motorists. If Chief Constables are unwilling to address the problem, then bring it to the attention of the Police Commissioner.

As I repeatedly post, I think it's important to be clear what result is wanted. It's certainly the case that PCC's now have a big say in policy, within the financial and policy constraints set by central govt. At a time of shrinking resources, any increases in priority are actually likely to be mitigations of a reduction. The PCC role is probably too new to be able to see much in the way of results and it would be unrealistic to expect otherwise. In the last couple of decades there's been big changes made in the priority given to domestic violence and hate crime. That only came about through sustained campaigning. Through that priority change and other reasons more to do with the creation of the CPS, traffic enforcement has been reduced to a shadow of what it used to be.

FWIW, I fancy that the need to be re-elected will lead to a lot of spin without much substance: statistical evidence that everything is hunkydory when everyday experience says something different. More well-publicised crackdowns for which things like pavment cycling, riding without lights and RLJing would be top favourites.

My earlier post to which you replied was mainly about complaining over individual cases of bad service. I'm not sure if it makes that much difference to the bigger picture if the officer who takes no action is impeccably behaved or rude. That's not to defend rudeness.

Only time will tell. We'll just have to wait for a response from an aggrieved cyclist who happens to have contacted his local Police Commissioner.

Rand.

[thirdcrank]

... Only time will tell. We'll just have to wait for a response from an aggrieved cyclist who happens to have contacted his local Police Commissioner. ... .

That's right, of course, and there will only be any sort of a clear picture once the system has settled down. I suspect, for example, that next time round the political parties will get more deeply involved in candidate selection and electioneering and there will be fewer independent candidates elected. IIRC, Mrs Balls, Mrs May's shadow, has indicated an intention to scrap the post. (Memory and interst failing so I may be wrong here.)

Ultimately, it's going to need a complete reorganisation of policing to change anything much. IMO.

[diapason0]

IIRC, Mrs Balls, Mrs May's shadow, has indicated an intention to scrap the post. (Memory and interst failing so I may be wrong here.)
.

Perhaps the electorate will choose to 'scrap' Madam Balls-up

[rand]

Ultimately, it's going to need a complete reorganisation of policing to change anything much. IMO.

I believe that was the reason the post of Police Commissioner was concieved.

Rand.

[thirdcrank]

... I believe that was the reason the post of Police Commissioner was concieved. ....

You have a much higher regard for the the thought processes of politicians than I have.

[thirdcrank]

At a more factual level, this has just been published about the national position on PCC's priorities.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24148129

And here's Avon and Somerset.

Ms Mountstevens believes you have the right to be safe and feel safe in your community and is pledging to:

Reduce the impact that anti-social behaviour has in our communities
Tackle domestic and sexual violence, particularly violence towards women and children
Prevent and reduce burglary and fear of burglary in your area
Ensure victims are at the heart of the criminal justice system

http://www.avonandsomerset-pcc.gov.uk/Y ... ities.aspx

Plenty of scope for writing to her to say that her force isn't putting crash victims at the heart of the CJ system, to ensure their right to be safe....etc.

Continue to breathe normally.