Fixing a puncture on the road

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Vorpal
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Vorpal »

beetroot wrote:I did it today (fixed a puncture on the road - bloody hedge cutters!). Well I replaced the punctured inner tube with a spare. The biggest problem I had was the pathetic pump, which couldn't have been more than two or three inches long. So I couldn't get a decent pressure, but sufficient to get home. So it got me thinking, I need a better pump. I like frame fitted pumps, once that fit discreetly on the frame for example in conjunction with bottle holder attachment. Any recommendations?

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MikewsMITH2
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by MikewsMITH2 »

MikewsMITH2 wrote:Ok I will take on the challenge. My son is away at uni, so I will inflate his tyres to 120 tomorrow and check them next weekend they will be in a cool garage all week with no patches in the tubes, the presta valves screwed down tight and valve caps firmly tightened. We shall see...


Ok after a week and 2 days. The rear which I inflated to 120psi was 105psi and the front which inflated to 100psi was still 100psi. I am not convinced any appreciable pressure was lost at the rear as a little bit is lost attaching the gauge. Schwalbe tubes with Gatorskins 700x23mm.
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Mick F
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Mick F »

Very interesting ...................
Thank you.

I've been waiting for your report, and I've been thinking about my pressures.

Your point about pressure loss with the gauge rings a bell with me. I reckon, and now I'm going to have to do my own test, that as my track pump has a Topeak nozzle it may be losing pressure when I attach and remove. Consequently, if I inflate to an indicated 120psi, by the time I disconnect I may have lost some. Ditto when I connect. Therefore my statements about pressure loss may be wrong. :oops:

I have a separate pressure gauge - one of these:
Screen shot 2013-10-16 at 08.52.07.png
Screen shot 2013-10-16 at 08.52.07.png (85.21 KiB) Viewed 755 times
I'll use this for the next week and check the pressure before connecting the track pump and after too to make sure I'm up to pressure.

I'll report back.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Ayesha »

Bike pumps.

They have two volumes. Expanded and closed. ( Expanded volume divided by the closed volume ) x 14 = max pressure that can be applied. These volumes includes the volume of the connector hose.

Put a small pump on the end of a long connector hose and you won’t get any air into the innertube.
Put a pump with an enormous expanded volume and a head which fits directly onto the valve, ( a framefit Silca ) and you’ll get 160 psi easily.

Buy the correct pump which has a 7:1 volume difference, and no matter how hard you pump, it’ll not put more than 100 psi in the tyre. ( which is what I use )
I can completely take the pump from its stroke extremities as much as I like without fear of over-inflating.

For 120 psi, you need a 9:1 compression ratio.
When inflation is being done correctly, a ‘pinging’ sound is heared when the air is pushed through the valve. When this stops and the effort feels futile, pressure is achieved.
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by The Mechanic »

You should not lose any pressure from the tube when you detach the pump with a presta valve. The valve shuts when you stop pumping and the air lost when you detach is from the pump/hose, not from the tyre. I assume this is the same with a schreader valve. If you subsequently use a separate gauge the you will let some pressure out.
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Mick F
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Mick F »

Not sure about that, though what you say sounds true .................. but:

When I attach my track pump, the pressure in the tyre is displayed on the track-pump gauge. Therefore the valve must be depressed when connected.

However, this situation varies a bit for some reason.
Sometimes the full pressure is shown, sometimes only partial pressure.
Therefore - at least with my pump and connection - some air is lost when I connect and disconnect. I never really check what's left in there with the digi-gauge, so that may be why I feel that my pressure drops in only a day or two.

BTW. I've spent five minutes trying to get my rear tyre up to 120psi as read on my Oxford digi-gauge. The track pump gauge and the digi-gauge don't agree on the pressure which makes the whole process a bit protracted. I gave up at 117.9psi as measured on the Oxford.

Off on a ride this afternoon now the rain has stopped and the sun is shining.

Check again tomorrow with the Oxford..
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Vorpal »

The pin in a schrader valve is typically held down by the pump. So, the valve doesn't close until the pump is removed. A little air will normally be released when the pump is connected & disconnected.

The pin in a presta valve is held shut by the internal pressure in the tube, so while a tiny bit of air could escape before the pressure closes the valve, it shouldn't be enough to register on a gauge.

Similarly, a gauge attachment needs enough air to come out to get a reading, but it is very small amount, and shouldn't be enough to affect the measured pressure.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Maybe leave a gauge attached?

Probably won't work well on the road. Maybe a hose to the hub, with a pressure meter and valve on the hub.
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Mick F
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Mick F »

Vorpal wrote:The pin in a presta valve is held shut by the internal pressure in the tube, so while a tiny bit of air could escape before the pressure closes the valve, it shouldn't be enough to register on a gauge.
It does on mine.

Connect up, do nothing else, the pressure gauge deflects usually to the correct pressure but sometimes only 25% or so. Dunno why.

I can't remember if my old Silca track pump did that, though I still have the screw-on attachment. Perhaps I could fit it and try.

Maybe it's a design problem with the Topeak Twin Head that I have on my pump. Maybe it's not a design problem, maybe it's designed to be like that.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by mjr »

mjr wrote:Meanwhile, I'll see what difference tyre width makes in use... I've just put a new 28mm on the front, while I've got a 37mm on the back - both Schwalbe, both inflated to 80psi (sidewall marking says 85 but I figure I'm lighter than many and the bike is average). I'll see which loses more pressure in a week.

They've only done about 50 miles if that and I didn't spend time measuring on Tuesday, then I wimped out riding in the last few days of bad weather because I didn't have to, but this morning, I hooked up the pump, gave it a tap to get a more accurate reading and the 28 DC on the front had deflated to the low 60s.

Then I hooked it up to the 37 M+ on the back and... low 60s, too. Both tyres have Continental Tour 28 all tubes in them.

So what do you make of that? Personally, I'm surprised they've deflated by the same pressure because I thought the DC was flexing more and I expected that to lead to faster deflation... and I thought there might be something in the idea that narrower tyre means less air to lose... but it also means the tube will be less stretched so maybe less porous. Anyway, the DC feels faster than the Armadillo it replaced and I feel fresher after rides. GPS suggests I'm recording about 2km/h faster for similar journeys, even though it's getting colder and that usually slows me down. I'm quite prepared for this to be a tyre structure difference rather than a width difference, though.
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by eileithyia »

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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Mick F »

What am I?

I'm impressed! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by The Mechanic »

+1
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Mick F
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by Mick F »

MikewsMITH2 wrote:
MikewsMITH2 wrote:Ok I will take on the challenge. My son is away at uni, so I will inflate his tyres to 120 tomorrow and check them next weekend they will be in a cool garage all week with no patches in the tubes, the presta valves screwed down tight and valve caps firmly tightened. We shall see...


Ok after a week and 2 days. The rear which I inflated to 120psi was 105psi and the front which inflated to 100psi was still 100psi. I am not convinced any appreciable pressure was lost at the rear as a little bit is lost attaching the gauge. Schwalbe tubes with Gatorskins 700x23mm.
Three days after inflating my rear tyre to 117.9psi as registered on my digi-gauge, I can report the following:
Wed 117.9psi
Thur 116.3psi
Fri 114.7psi

There.
That proves it.
It's my track pump letting air out when I connect or disconnect. :shock:

I'm starting a new thread about track pump connections.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Fixing a puncture on the road

Post by snibgo »

Thanks for posting that video, eileithyia. Very inspiring. I love the way he casually rides off at the end, as if it's no big deal.
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